Think I messed up the maths somewhere - I came up with a lower potential points than around 96. Though even that doesn't dramatically change the story.
Alex Albon joins Max Verstappen at Red Bull
- Thread starter hominid
- Start date
Think I messed up the maths somewhere - I came up with a lower potential points than around 96. Though even that doesn't dramatically change the story.
I think that’s unfair on DK. He’s a known quantity at RB and really didn’t do anything wrong to be replaced by MV, it was only Jos’s moaning and demands that got him replaced.
Oh I'm not saying its the right or fair call, I just can't see Kvyat ever getting that RBR seat again with Marko around as he'd effectively be admitting he was wrong.
Marko did bring him back into F1 with TR so in some ways has admitted his mistake. Given the dearth of qualified drivers for the other TR seat he was really the only option though.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
He's mostly ahead because he was behind in Germany so took the earlier riskier pitstop but it worked out great. He as ahead but it was a narrow margin before. They've both been great. Kvyat mostly didn't get the seat because it's a test for Albon. They know if they give the seat to Kvyat he is good enough and will retain it for 2020. If Max gets a huge offer from Merc/Ferrari that RBR can't/won't match then they need to know if Albon is good enough to go with Kvyat or if they need to hire someone else in 2021 to go with Kvyat.
Basically they need to test Albon more than Kvyat, but Albon also has the higher potential (if he reaches it which is never certain).
Soldato
Dramatically? No but it would change the story. Even with the extra 30 points RBR would still be third. Though they would only be ~10 points off Ferrari rather than ~40 they currently are. I don't think many people would predict Gasly to start doing better and helping close that 40 point gap. So keep Gasly definitely finish 3rd in the WCC. Change driver and at worst they should still keep 3rd but maybe they can get can 2nd.
Don
Good decision imho.
We get to see him in top machinery, and see how he copes. He gets a proper intro to Red-bull, race time, and should be FULLY up to speed before the end of the season.
This is a really interesting season all round
We get to see him in top machinery, and see how he copes. He gets a proper intro to Red-bull, race time, and should be FULLY up to speed before the end of the season.
This is a really interesting season all round
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,153
Correct decision, terrible delivery.
Soldato
Gasly needs to return to performing like he did last year in the STR to prove that it was him and the car that didn't get along and not his abilities as a driver. I'd have thought his days in the Red Bull stable are done though, although I'd have thought the same with Kvyat when he got the boot and look how that turned out.
Associate
<looks up odds on Albon to win next race and both Mercs to DNF>
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
I hope Albon fails miserably, for the simple fact I’d have preferred Kvyat got a second roll of the dice.
At this stage, I’d be wanting out of Torro Rosso if I were Danill ... they’ve basically cut him whilst he was on top, demoted him down to a lower mid table team then promoted his woefully average team mate when a valid excuse came knocking.
Their obvious fallback plan when Alborn fails is: promote Kyvat to great fanfare, hence the “we will evaluate performance to see who will drive alongside Max for 2020”.
That being said, the tea boy will probably get a chance before the torpedo.
At this stage, I’d be wanting out of Torro Rosso if I were Danill ... they’ve basically cut him whilst he was on top, demoted him down to a lower mid table team then promoted his woefully average team mate when a valid excuse came knocking.
Their obvious fallback plan when Alborn fails is: promote Kyvat to great fanfare, hence the “we will evaluate performance to see who will drive alongside Max for 2020”.
That being said, the tea boy will probably get a chance before the torpedo.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
If you can't get along with almost any car you aren't a top driver you're just pretty good, at best. They need to be capable of getting the best out of whatever machinery they have. Also we have no idea how he performed last year, Hartley was crap and people finally realised it towards the end of the year. We know that Gasly was better than Hartley but not that Gasly performed actually well.
Where I remember loads of really good competitive drives from Leclerc, good defence and attack against Alonso and other cars up and down the grid in different races, Gasly only had a couple of stand out races and plenty of meh ones.
At this stage, I’d be wanting out of Torro Rosso if I were Danill ... they’ve basically cut him whilst he was on top, demoted him down to a lower mid table team then promoted his woefully average team mate when a valid excuse came knocking.
What people keep missing is that without Red Bull, Kvyat would never have been in F1 but thanks to their support he made his dream of driving in F1, made it into the senior team, got unlucky that Verstappen was too good to be ignored, performed really very poorly at TR on his demotion but despite that has gotten a chance again. It's amazing how much flak Red Bull are getting for helping Kvyat ever be in F1.
As for his woefully average team mate, nothing about ALbon has appeared woefully average. He was outstanding last year and he's been very good this year. Kvyat is way more experienced in F1 and his race pace and qualifying pace aren't at all far off Kvyat. Both are performing well above average.
I don't particularly follow F1 so could be way off but looked like Albon was starting to gain enough experience to show what he was really capable of (or not) so giving him a shot to see how it pans out is potentially a smart move.
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
Interesting that Horner said Gasly was perhaps promoted too early, yet he’s now promoted Albon (earlier).
Maybe it was harsh to say that I hope Alborn fails but I really dislike the RB team for the way in which they conduct business. I’d love to see Dr Helmut eat some delicious humble pie and re-promote Kvyat (who I think is the better driver).
I still maintain that hell will freeze over before that happens... unless Alborn bombs so badly that they have to, I think Kvyat is best off finding another seat.
Maybe it was harsh to say that I hope Alborn fails but I really dislike the RB team for the way in which they conduct business. I’d love to see Dr Helmut eat some delicious humble pie and re-promote Kvyat (who I think is the better driver).
I still maintain that hell will freeze over before that happens... unless Alborn bombs so badly that they have to, I think Kvyat is best off finding another seat.
Soldato
Dany was promoted too early from TR to RB and his inexperience got him dumped. Albon has been promoted in the same fashion and will get dumped the same way.
I'd be seething if I was Dany, he deserved another shot, get out lad before the RB stable ruins your career.
I'd be seething if I was Dany, he deserved another shot, get out lad before the RB stable ruins your career.
Soldato
Exactly.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Yup, pretty much it, he was fast from the first race pretty much. He wasn't far off Kvyat and he hasn't gained a huge amount of time either. I think Albon has showed a lot of pace and promise already and should improve over time but he's also 23 with a decent number of junior years under him while Max kept finding a new level every year but he joined at 17 with a single year of single seater so I wouldn't say I think he looks Max level potential but enough to be a very decent driver.
Gasly is still a Red Bull driver, he's still being paid, it's in their interest to help him out. Horner is paying him lip service. I think people seem to be forgetting that this is F1, currently only 20 of the absolute best drivers in the world get to be in it, being okay isn't good enough and RBR's program is looking for world champions, not solid midfield drivers let alone ones not good enough for F1. Not everyone deserves a chance. WDC capable drivers can't be promoted too soon, look at Vettel, Max, Hamilton, Alonso, Kimi, etc, if they are good enough they'll thrive under the chance, if they aren't good enough they'll fail. That's the point, Gasly wasn't remotely promoted too early... he's not good enough and that is valuable information for Red Bull.
Helmut won't be eating any humble pie if Kvyat gets their either, I get people have a hate boner for him but Kvyat was dropped not for performance at all, but because without promoting Max they risked losing him and Max is better than almost anyone in F1 except Hamilton and he's not far off him either. He made literally 100% the right decision to drop one of the two drivers to secure Max in the team, which driver was a question but in terms of marketing value Ricciardo beat out Kvyat unfortunately.
Kvyat's reaction to being demoted, which while unfair and undeserved was the right call, was bad and his performance in TR after the demotion was really poor. Helmut saying he won't be back was really him saying he won't be back with Red Bull backing because they don't believe he can make the turn around after his massive downturn after the demotion. Except Kvyat did make the turn around, Ferrari were very impressed with him and given the chance to test and show what he can do it was really good.
Kvyat beat Ricciardo in 2015, he had a podium and was doing great in 2016, he had one bad race in Russia, the decision to replace him was already made before it. He wasn't promoted too early in the slightest, he was dropped not because he wasn't fast in the Red Bull and wasn't driving well, but because if they didn't promote Max a clause meant he could sign for Ferrari or Merc who were making offers because Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and anyone with eyeballs could see Max was the next big thing in F1. Kvyat was a victim of Max being that damn good, he performed great and wasn't thrown in out of his depth in the slightest.
Also again, Kvyat wouldn't have ever come close to F1 without their backing, he owes his entire career in F1 completely to Red Bull and without Red bull he likely had no shot of ever coming back into F1 as a driver rather than a test/development/sim driver.
Soldato
Red Bull is owned by Thai's.