Am I being unreasonable?

[TW]Fox;29902667 said:
Not that at all, he meant he uses a salary sacrifice scheme to get tax free childcare vouchers. Not that he considers it a sacrifice to have to pay for childcare :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm referring to the rest of the comment and sentiment in that post.
 
Richdog said:
This.

The simple summary of this situation is that the OP has a hobby that he can't afford without financial assistance, and thinks saving a couple of hundred quid is "enough" after paying out over 30% of his net salary after expenses on said hobby.

Not only that, but I think he needs to be asking himself which is more important, his hobby or his wife. Then he needs to be asking how much he will get to enjoy any hobby once his wife gets sick of it and leaves him, taking as much of his assets as she can on the way out.

I find it amazing how some people seem determined to drive themselves into a rut.
Click to expand...

Why is it a choice between his wife and his hobby if he can comfortably afford to pay for the car? Do you live in fear that your partner will leave you if you disagree with her?
 
Hambut_Bulge said:
You mean they actually come with indicators?! :eek:
Click to expand...

I (well, the Mrs and I) have replaced our old Focus with a 2nd hand 3 series (lovely car btw). I was surprised to see that they infact do! :)

What they do for some random reason though is have the default blinker pattern for the quick 'lane change' tap to be a single solitary blink. You might as well not have one at all. The first thing I did was change it back to the 3 blinks you'd expect.

Of course you're not allowed to start the engine until it sees that you're wearing the standard issue bluetooth earpiece and reflective sunglasses which took a bit of getting used to. In time, and once I've finished my training I'll be able to close my following distance to the recommended 3cm and reduce or even stop indicator usage altogether.

Don't listen to the haters OP. Get the car. Become a BMW driver. It makes you better than everyone else and your GF will love you more for it.

(but seriously, don't do it)
 
I think this thread has been invaded by mumsnet.

The OP's true failings are his lack of persuasion and negotiating skills - and his inability to convert man-maths into acceptable wifey-maths.

Also remember it's easier to obtain forgiveness than get to permission ;)
 
Roar87 said:
Why is it a choice between his wife and his hobby if he can comfortably afford to pay for the car? Do you live in fear that your partner will leave you if you disagree with her?
Click to expand...

Because he is creating financial liability for his wife as a result of said hobby that only he enjoys and that he cannot comfortably afford without financial assistance. Is spending more than 30% of his £600 monthly budget "comfortably" affording that?

Not only that, but it obviously causes such an issue in the relationship that even he feels it could cause a rift, which says that the OP's viewpoint may not be adequately stating the effect it has on his wife, and for what reasons.

It shows a lack of synchronization between him and his wife in financial matters, and perhaps a lack of prioritisation on his part if he thinks a £20k BMW is a suitable investment for someone of his modest financial means. It is extravagant and unnecessary when a decent used car can be had for considerably less.
 
Last edited:
Kalexuz said:
I failed to mention I do around 3,000 miles a year in my car and work 1.1 mile away from my house but despite this, want a nice car anyway. I do need a car though for carry my daughter around.
Click to expand...

£20k car for 3k miles a year?

You'll barely be in the thing.
 
I'm confused, did the OP not want a £7,500 loan at £200 a month when he has £600 left after all his outgoings, which include a pension and putting money into shares? Where has this £20k BMW come from?
 
I got a £20k car last year, although I don't have a wife, kid or mortgage (mortgage and wife on the way though now), and I earn more money than you, but even if I did have all those things on my wage, I'd still think long and hard about taking out money to buy a £20k car. Once I move house I don't think I'll ever get a car that expensive again unless I get a dramatic increase in wages.
 
Mucky_Pup said:
I got a £20k car last year, although I don't have a wife, kid or mortgage (mortgage and wife on the way though now), and I earn more money than you, but even if I did have all those things on my wage, I'd still think long and hard about taking out money to buy a £20k car. Once I move house I don't think I'll ever get a car that expensive again unless I get a dramatic increase in wages.
Click to expand...

Yep, screw that. Me and my GF are both working and while I do have a child, she doesn't live with us and we still wouldn't dream of spending that kind of money on a car. Ours was less than half that and we still had to seriously consider whether we could afford it.
 
Roar87 said:
I'm confused, did the OP not want a £7,500 loan at £200 a month when he has £600 left after all his outgoings, which include a pension and putting money into shares? Where has this £20k BMW come from?
Click to expand...

Eh? I think you need to read the OP again.
 
Richdog said:
Because he is creating financial liability for his wife as a result of said hobby that only he enjoys and that he cannot comfortably afford without financial assistance. Is spending more than 30% of his £600 monthly budget "comfortably" affording that?
Click to expand...

It's not 30% of their monthly budget, it's 30% of the disposable excess after all costs are paid for and after over-paying on their mortgage and after a portion of his earnings are set aside into savings. You've greatly distorted things. Furthermore, it is acceptable for money to be spent on something that only he enjoys just as it is acceptable for money to be spent on something only she enjoys. Obviously it is a more efficient use of the money if it can be spent on something they both enjoy but differences between people mean that there will always be desires one has that the other does not. I honestly find there to be a large strain of people dismissing the OP's view on the grounds that they do not attribute the same value to owning the car that the OP states they do. I'm willing to take the OP at their word and accept for the sake of argument that they really do consider £200 a month an acceptable cost for the enjoyment they expect from this. It's a lack of willingness to see someone else's point of view to declare that it isn't. They might be fooling themself - a year from now the novelty might have worn off. But they say they are a car person and this will make them happy, so who am I to say that my understanding of them is better than their own?

Richdog said:
Not only that, but it obviously causes such an issue in the relationship that even he feels it could cause a rift, which says that the OP's viewpoint may not be adequately stating the effect it has on his wife, and for what reasons.
Click to expand...

It doesn't say that with any certainty. It could equally be that the wife's perception of the effect on her is wrong. It sounds like the OP has done their sums so the issue is confirming whether they are right or not, given that it is their earnings and they have met their obligations, imo.

Richdog said:
It shows a lack of synchronization between him and his wife in financial matters,
Click to expand...

As in previous point, it can also show a difference in assessment of risk. Or in ability to relate to what others enjoy. For all we know, she would be okay with it if it were to be spent remodelling the living room and this disharmony is relating to inability to accept that he really will get the level of enjoyment from the car that he says he will because she herself would not. All of this is just as valid an interpretation of what we know without knowing the people involved themselves.

Richdog said:
and perhaps a lack of prioritisation on his part if he thinks a £20k BMW is a suitable investment for someone of his modest financial means. It is extravagant and unnecessary when a decent used car can be had for considerably less.
Click to expand...

This returns us to the start - your underlying reason for the argument that you construct is that you have different values than the OP themself. You don't set the same value on it as they. Much like someone who wants to spend £600 on a graphics card that another person thinks is pointless because they're not interested in gaming. A relationship requires understanding what the other person enjoys even if one does not enjoy it oneself.
 
Here's a suggestion to the OP that might result in both new car and happy marriage (best of both worlds). Agree to get the car but that you'll quit smoking. You say your e-cig habit is a £100 per month. That's half the cost of the repayments already done and you'll be quitting an unhealthy addiction that a child shouldn't be around. E-cigs are still a nicotine addiction and they're designed (ostensibly) as a means of quitting smoking. Complete the process and finish them. Nobody should begrudge you paying £100 (the car repayments after deducting the e-cig habit) a month on something you really enjoy.

You'll look like less of a hipster, too.
 
h4rm0ny said:
It's not 30% of their monthly budget, it's 30% of the disposable excess after all costs are paid for and after over-paying on their mortgage and after a portion of his earnings are set aside into savings. You've greatly distorted things. Furthermore, it is acceptable for money to be spent on something that only he enjoys just as it is acceptable for money to be spent on something only she enjoys. Obviously it is a more efficient use of the money if it can be spent on something they both enjoy but differences between people mean that there will always be desires one has that the other does not. I honestly find there to be a large strain of people dismissing the OP's view on the grounds that they do not attribute the same value to owning the car that the OP states they do. I'm willing to take the OP at their word and accept for the sake of argument that they really do consider £200 a month an acceptable cost for the enjoyment they expect from this. It's a lack of willingness to see someone else's point of view to declare that it isn't. They might be fooling themself - a year from now the novelty might have worn off. But they say they are a car person and this will make them happy, so who am I to say that my understanding of them is better than their own?
Click to expand...

Are you really so desperate to vindicate the OP that you completely feel the need to skip the part about him getting a long-term loan for a 20k BMW that his wife is also liable for and firmly against doing? If so then... just... lol.


It doesn't say that with any certainty. It could equally be that the wife's perception of the effect on her is wrong.

As in previous point, it can also show a difference in assessment of risk. Or in ability to relate to what others enjoy. For all we know, she would be okay with it if it were to be spent remodelling the living room and this disharmony is relating to inability to accept that he really will get the level of enjoyment from the car that he says he will because she herself would not. All of this is just as valid an interpretation of what we know without knowing the people involved themselves.

Are you just intent on repeating what I have already said? I already pointed out that her not enjoying this hobby could be a deciding factor.

This returns us to the start - your underlying reason for the argument that you construct is that you have different values than the OP themself. You don't set the same value on it as they. Much like someone who wants to spend £600 on a graphics card that another person thinks is pointless because they're not interested in gaming. A relationship requires understanding what the other person enjoys even if one does not enjoy it oneself.
Click to expand...

Basically the rest of what you wrote consists of very little tangible content other than repeating a few very flimsy arguments.
 
Last edited:
Richdog said:
Are you really so desperate to vindicate the OP that you completely feel the need to skip the part about him getting a loan (that she is also liable for) for a 20k BMW? If so then... just... lol.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find the word "repayments" in my post had you read it. I've not skipped over the fact it is a loan. Loans are a legitimate way of getting something sooner at an increase in cost. OP could save every month for the next six years and not have what they want, or they could have it now at a cost of around an extra £1,300 spread over the same time period, i.e. about £20 extra per month for the privilege of having use of the car for all those extra years. Saying "loans... lol" is not some magic way of discrediting an argument. The question whether the loan was high risk or couldn't be afforded. But it's clearly within the OP's budget and is also to purchase a sale-able asset which further offsets risk. They're buying second hand so there shouldn't be some massive and rapid depreciation.

Honestly, "lol" is not really a very good method of debate when I went into some actual detail on yours and showed the problems with what you wrote. I.e. that your post is wholly supposition based on you not perceiving value the same way as the OP.


Richdog said:
Basically the rest of what you wrote consists of very little tangible content other than repeating a few very flimsy arguments.
Click to expand...

Nothing flimsy about them. Care to actually engage and try to refute them, or is your response going to just be "lol" and "you're arguments are flimsy"? Because those are the responses of someone who can't actually put their finger easily on a reason why the other person is wrong. Oh, and of course calling the other person "desperate". That's a popular tactic YouTube level argument as well. :D
 
h4rm0ny said:
I think you'll find the word "repayments" in my post had you read it. I've not skipped over the fact it is a loan. Loans are a legitimate way of getting something sooner at an increase in cost. OP could save every month for the next six years and not have what they want, or they could have it now at a cost of around an extra £1,300 spread over the same time period, i.e. about £20 extra per month for the privilege of having use of the car for all those extra years. Saying "loans... lol" is not some magic way of discrediting an argument. The question whether the loan was high risk or couldn't be afforded. But it's clearly within the OP's budget and is also to purchase a sale-able asset which further offsets risk. They're buying second hand so there shouldn't be some massive and rapid depreciation.

Honestly, "lol" is not really a very good method of debate when I went into some actual detail on yours and showed the problems with what you wrote. I.e. that your post is wholly supposition based on you not perceiving value the same way as the OP.

Nothing flimsy about them. Care to actually engage and try to refute them, or is your response going to just be "lol" and "you're arguments are flimsy"? Because those are the responses of someone who can't actually put their finger easily on a reason why the other person is wrong. Oh, and of course calling the other person "desperate". That's a popular tactic YouTube level argument as well. :D
Click to expand...

I don't care to refute them in the slightest, because I genuinely think what you wrote is a load of rambling twaddle and I don't waste my time arguing in situations like that. I wrote my own opinions more than clearly and I'm very happy to disagree in this instance. :)
 
Last edited:
Richdog said:
I don't care to refute them in the slightest, because I genuinely think what you wrote is a load of rambling twaddle and I don't waste my time arguing in situations like that. I wrote my own opinions more than clearly and I'm very happy to disagree in this instance. :)
Click to expand...

Are you really a Marriage councillor?
 
OP - Set down how much you need to spend on house, food, kids, wife and all the other stuff, including some extra for unforseeable events. Make sure you and wife are paying the same amount. Put this into a joint account.
Whatever you are left with is yours to do whatever the funk you like.

If a twenty-grand townie car is not within your budget, go watch a few Car Throttle videos and pick up something from their High Performance For Under Two Grand videos.
 
20,000 is waaaaay too much. where the hell did you pull that number from your finances?

you will never get that value back by the time you pay it off.

7,500 is understandable.... but 20,000... where is the logic?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom