AM4 Motherboard Advice Please

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So I am using raisonjohn's awesome sortable AM4 Motherboard database to find the right motherboard for my requirements (i.e. to properly support my Silverstone PM02 case):

  • 4+ System Fan Headers
  • 2xUSB3.0 Headers
  • Intel Ethernet
  • Full ATX
I intend to get a 2nd Generation Ryzen 5 2600 so, as I understand it, that unfortunately also rules-out the Msi B350 Gaming Pro Carbon with it'd older chipset? Correct me if I'm wrong. It's chicken-and-egg in that you need a functional CPU to update the BIOS to support the 2nd gen CPU?

Excluding the extra-expensive Msi X470 Gaming Pro Carbon, that leaves me with:
  • Asrock Fatal1ty X470 Gaming K4
  • Asrock X470 Master SLI
  • Biostar Racing X470GT8 Ver.5.x
  • Gigabyte X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming
Unfortunately because these are X470 boards, all the reviews I look at focus on thier overclocking potential. I have no interest in overclocking any components - longevity and stability FTW! Neither do I have interest in LED lighting.
The Gigabyte X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming would be the frontrunner as it is relatively cheap, stocked by overclockers and has an abundance of fan headers but all the reviews seem quite lukewarm about it.

Can anyone please vouche for the above MOBOs - especially in terms of BIOS usability, stability and software?
Alternatively are people aware of any new AM4 boards coming in 2019 that might suit my needs? I'm not in much of a rush at the moment - just want to know what my options are.

Thanks!
 
Overclocking doesn't kill anything unless you do it wrong. And the Ryzen 2000 series overclock themselves anyway ("Precision Boost") so it's always best to have a motherboard with a solid power delivery even if you're not clocking the tatas off it. The motherboard is the 2nd most important element of your system, why try to cheap out on it?

Chicken and egg situation doesn't exist because you can get a boot kit from AMD if you find yourself needing to update the BIOS on a 300 series motherboard to support Ryzen 2000.

From what I gathered recently Gigabyte have dropped the ball for a while and their BIOS is appalling and makes things a bit twitchy.

Edit: MSI B450 Tomahawk apparently is well regarded.
 
The motherboard is the 2nd most important element of your system, why try to cheap out on it?
I understand that the motherboard is important. I don't feel like I am trying to cheap-out - the Motherboards I mention are of the most premium AM4 chipset and over £130. Do you think I shouldn't have excluded the Msi X470 Gaming Pro Carbon?

I just found myself glossing over when in the reviews they'd spend ages going into the minutiae like it's the be-all and end-all and start boasting about the clock speeds they were able to get. I want to know about the BIOS experience and whether they found the connector placement to be sensible.

The 2600 I plan to get is only a 65W part so surely I shouldn't have to worry about power delivery all that much? Surely on any X470 Motherboard it's going to be good enough?

you can get a boot kit from AMD if you find yourself needing to update the BIOS on a 300 series motherboard to support Ryzen 2000.
I've seen word of these boot kits but it seems less than straightforward. AMD want proof that you have contacted the retailer and board manufacturer and only once they've both refused to provide you with a board with an updated BIOS will they send you the kit. A small shop would probably quite happily update the board for you but [rival electronics retailer] who currently stock the Msi B350 Gaming Pro Carbon likely won't. There's a chance that all the boards shipping now have an updated BIOS from the factory but I'd need someone to confirm that.

From what I gathered recently Gigabyte have dropped the ball for a while and their BIOS is appalling and makes things a bit twitchy.
That's good to know - thanks.

MSI B450 Tomahawk apparently is well regarded.
I had seen good things about the 'Tomahawk' motherboards. Unfortunately only has one 19-pin USB3 header and I need 2 for my case's front ports.
 
It sounds a little bit like you're focussing on the wrong things and losing sight of the bigger picture. Why does the BIOS experience matter if you're not overclocking? You'll go into it like once to get your system set up and never touch it again. However, the "minutiae" of power delivery and board control - which is done in the BIOS - is important to the performance of the motherboard and the system as a whole. Positive overclocking and tuning experience means the board is good, and it'll rock at stock (unless there's some foibles like Asus boards actually being power hungry at stock), and again if there's a problem the review would say so. And by extension, if the BIOS was a pain to work with for them to do their tuning and clocking tests, they would have said so. So you can draw from that the BIOS experience is fine. And to be honest, a BIOS is a BIOS so unless things are misnamed or don't actually work correctly (ahem, Gigabyte), then it's all pretty much much of a muchness.

Connector placement you could probably work out yourself though because every case is going to be subtly different. Look at high-res photos of the board, identify the connectors you'll be using and see if your case will cause issues.

If AMD require proof that you've exhausted all options with your chosen vendor to get a board working, then the vendor will have to support you. They can't just flog you a 300 series board with an outdated BIOS and just leave you to it. So it's worth asking before you purchase if a) the BIOS is up-to-date and b) upon purchase will they check and flash it for you if required. If they say no then don't buy from them, because they're chumps.

Personally I don't use front panel connectors so the USB3 header wouldn't be an issue for me, but I wouldn't base my purchasing decision on whether or not I could plug in a USB port I don't use over the quality of the components and the board's performance. A powered port splitter in the back of the case is preferable over than discounting a board because my front panel won't be plugged in.
 
Why does the BIOS experience matter if you're not overclocking? You'll go into it like once to get your system set up and never touch it again.
Yeh - you're right. I mean I do plan to setup custom fan curves to ensure positive pressure but after that I'll have no reason to go back into it. I'm really just grasping for things that I'll actually notice and understand. When choosing power supply and case, reviews made it really easy to pick but it seems that MOBOs of the same chipset aren't much different. I guess I was hoping for feedback like this that compares and contrasts specifically the options put forward. Unfortunately it seems people saw that I had got a reply and decided not to add thier two-pennies-worth.

I wouldn't base my purchasing decision on whether or not I could plug in a USB port I don't use over the quality of the components and the board's performance. A powered port splitter in the back of the case is preferable over than discounting a board because my front panel won't be plugged in.
I kind of have to disagree with you here. Nice and efficient cabling is a big priority for me. I see a lot of crappy haphazard builds with terrible cable management that people have put together and then I have to fix as they don't really know what they're doing. There's value in direct, simple-to-understand cabling without intermediaries.
That said, what I should have considered is a 3.1 Gen 2 Header -> 3.0 19-pin Header adaptor as a lot of the Motherboards are going with a 1xUSB 3.1 Gen 2 header and 1xUSB 3.0 header.

If AMD require proof that you've exhausted all options with your chosen vendor to get a board working, then the vendor will have to support you. They can't just flog you a 300 series board with an outdated BIOS and just leave you to it. So it's worth asking before you purchase if a) the BIOS is up-to-date and b) upon purchase will they check and flash it for you if required.
UPDATE: Contacted [big online electronics retailer] regarding BIOS version of the MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon and whether they could update it and got this reply:
The motherboards we stock are currently mixed, so yours would likely require a BIOS update.

This isn't something we normally facilitate, however, if you are looking at placing the order, we can get our technicians to update it before it ships.

This would be at no extra cost to yourself.
So you're totally right - it's worth asking - even if they are a big company like Overclockers. The 'order' they reference is in relation to my assertation that I would also buy the CPU from them. Don't know whether thier agreement to perfom the BIOS flash was dependant on me doing a £200+ order but that's kinda fair enough even if it was and the price was good.
That's the takeaway for people who find this thread - ask if the retailer will update the BIOS on a B350 or X370 board. Saying that I do admit to feeling a bit pressured by the quick, accomadating response so maybe make sure you're in a position to afford/buy before investigating.

So yeh I went with that offer. The reviewers seem more positive about the MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon than the Gigabyte X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming and it's ~£50 cheaper. I also prefer the aesthetics - apparently the 'carbon fibre' elements are stickers you can peel off revealing plain black metal. By a lot of accounts it has a lot in common with the X370 Gaming Pro Carbon which is well reviewed.
It is an older chipset but the newer features like StoreMI don't really interest me. AMD have said that the AM4 socket will be supported by Ryzen 2 and potentially beyond so I'll be reasonably future-proofed - certainly more so than the LGA775 I am currently using :p .
I did condider waiting for Ryzen 2 (and possibly new chipsets) but there's no guarantee I'll be able to find a MOBO I'll like then either and the small remaining stock of the MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon will likely be gone by then.

I was a bit disapointed to discover in this new post that I may not be able to turn off the RGB and I probably won't be able to use the keyboard for setting fan values :/ but I'm not going to cancel my order over it.
 
Very happy it's turned out for you. be sure to post a bazillion pics of your build so I can purr with envy. I'm beyond skint and can't afford anything for the 4 projects I have planned, so I'm living vicariously through those who have bought new shiny :p
 
Earlier I clicked on the link in your sig and slowly started reading through the thread. That's some dedication to aesthetics! All I have done to my case is remove the logo projector as I don't like how it impedes airflow and I'll probably peel the 'carbon fiber' stickers off of the motherboard.
I bought the case out of last month's wages and the power supply the month before. The plan was to save up the ~£300 I'd need to get the CPU, MOBO and RAM alltogether with the option of grabbing one piece if there was an especially good deal.
The somewhat impulse buy I did last night (incl Ryzen 5 2600 & 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4) was enabled by a £300 loan from the joint account I have with my partner which I'll be paying back at £60 a month over 5 months :/ .
I'll be moving over the HDD, SATA SSD and Radeon R7 265 from my Dell XPS 420 so I'll be all set to assemble when I get the delivery mid-next-week.
I'll add an NVME SSD at a later date.
I was planning to document and review the build on PC Part Picker but maybe I'll do a post in the Project Logs forum here too :) . After-all I got the Case and PSU from Overclockers and I'd love to give the Red/Black Primera 02 more exposure. All the reviewers got White ones which make the black fan leads really ostentatious.
 
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Earlier I clicked on the link in your sig and slowly started reading through the thread. That's some dedication to aesthetics!

Thank you very much! It's been a labour of love, hate and tears. I have a big update coming very soon as the case remodelling is finished, although I've potentially trashed my perfectly formed res mount. Just need to make up some new PSU slide runners, jig it all together. I'm going to start tubing up where I can so I can see any final tweaks needed in the case before I clean up, paint and rivet.
 
Update for the record:
Only yesterday did I recieve the Motherboard....

The internal communication at [rival electronics retailer] is appalling!
To recap, I contacted them before I ordered and asked if it would be possible to update the BIOS on a B350 Motherboard before they shipped it. They said yes.
I made the order (B350 Motherboard, Ryzen 5 2600 and RAM) and attached an eNote to it asking for them to update the BIOS.
Quite soon after I got an email from [rival electronics retailer] - they were out of stock of the Ryzen 5 2600 ("I have been advised today that your graphics card is out of stock." srsly! :O). This went back-and-forth as I had been aware it was out of stock when I ordered but the website said they were expecting a restock soon. I kept mentioning the importance of the BIOS update but the person talking to me refused to comment. I was obviously perfectly happy to drop the CPU from the order and get it cheaper from Overclockers.
The RAM dispatches and arrives quickly but there is a delay before the motherboard is 'dispatched'. An hour later I get a reply to me eNote offering to authorise a return on the motherboard. I respond that according to the courier, [rival electronics retailer] still have it. They look into it and discover that thier technicians updated the BIOS on a Msi B350 Gaming Pro Carbon Motherboard... and then thier shipping department sent a different one that hadn't been updated...

So I had to wait for it arrive, send it back and wait for them to sort it. After three working days I got an email titled "No Fault Found":
Following extensive tests by our Returns Technicians we have been unable to locate the fault you reported, therefore, the goods will be returned to you with no further action.
I phone up furious to be told that was just an automated message and it has actually been updated and sent back to me with next-working-day delivery. As far a the website is concerned, the return is closed and that-is-that. No notification that it has been sent and no tracking number.

The take-away from all that is that if you're going to try to get a retailer to update the BIOS on an old chipset board before dispatch, choose a computer-specialist rather than a general electronics retailer where the staff are likely to be clueless. It might also have helped to bug them on the phone too as they seem to have access to much more information than you as the customer are privvy to. eNotes are not prioritized and it takes days before they even look at them.

But I have it now and installed into the case last night. Was generally pretty painless but did run into one specific problem with the case-motherboard combination that I'll highlight in the build log when I get round to it. Pretty happy with the cable management and the LED cable from the Wraith Spire cooler I got was just long enough to go round the back of the motherboard and plug in the botton. Interestingly I had to remove the cooler shroud and fan from the Wraith Spire and rotate them around to have the AMD logo up the right way. Took plenty of photos albeit with my phone camera.

The rest of the components that need installing (PSU, SSD, HDD and Graphics Card) are still in my current tower. I'm waiting for Microsoft to release the fixed version of the October update to Windows 10 before I switch-over and do the install.
 
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Zig - I could hazard a guess which competitor retailer you've been dealing with - 4 letter word and you often have one early pregnancy at a hospital ;) Well a guess anyway as sounds like an experience I had earlier this year with them. I will never ever ever ever use them again and served me right for not using OverclockersUK.
 
Umm actually no. In hindsight they may have been a better option as they are computer-centric. [rival electronics retailer] are a jack-of-all-electronics.
But yeh would rather have used Overclockers but they don't even have a listing for the MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon. I haven't put any power in it yet, but I'm really happy with it aesthetically and according to Buildzoid as-of May 2017, it had the best VRMs/power setup of any B350 board. I had to go through unnecessary hassle to get it updated but in the end, I've got a top-end (albeit of an older and mainstream chipset) board for ~£40 less than the cheapest X470 board that met my requirements.
Thanks to LePhuronn for giving me the push to give getting it updated a try.
 
All X470 boards, and X370 boards with the latest BIOS updates, will support the new Ryzen 2nd Gen processors. X370 motherboards that have had the BIOS updated already will have the ‘Ryzen 2000 Desktop Ready’ logo attached on the box, however X470 boards will automatically be covered.
Source

That's the best I could find quickly but in my research I never saw any worry that a X470 board wouldn't support the Ryzen 2000 series.
Also marketing images state the X470 as 'optimised' for 2nd gen Ryzen.
 
In this situation I think motherboards with a dedicated USB flash port for BIOS updates are a godsend. In terms of X470 boards their is a good recap on the Hardware Unboxed YouTube channel.
 
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