Amber Rudd fails to understand the internet

Suicidal Ferret · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:23

Should we not lock our doors or cars then? Burglars and theives will always get in if they are truly determined to

Arazi · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:38

Amp34 said:
So this all stems from the media speculating that the guy sent a whatsapp message during the event. Now let's assume he did - why do they need to break the encryption on it? Do they not have access to his phone? Whatsapp doesn't automatically delete messages.

Or is this nothing to do with the incident they are trying to profit from and just another way of trying to circumvent privacy concerns, after being the cause of the encryption being put in place in the first place because they couldn't be trusted not to read messages illegally prior to the encryption?

This is what i thought, if the messages are not deleted in whatsapp then all they need is access to the phone, shirly.

dowie · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:39

nox_uk said:
The metadata should be available to the government and law enforcement agencies.

AFAIK Facebook/Whatsapp does provide this to authorities when needed

dowie · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:41

Amp34 said:
So this all stems from the media speculating that the guy sent a whatsapp message during the event. Now let's assume he did - why do they need to break the encryption on it? Do they not have access to his phone? Whatsapp doesn't automatically delete messages.

see the posts above yours - the terrorist is dead, they might well not have access to his phone

on the other hand, they may have the meta data

dowie · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:41

Amp34 said:
Why do they need the metadata? Just look at his damn phone.

he's dead

the metadata can locate the other person, presumably still alive!

Haggisman · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:47

Suicidal Ferret said:
Should we not lock our doors or cars then? Burglars and theives will always get in if they are truly determined to

How about a better analogy. Let's make all our houses, cupboards, etc. out of glass and perspex so that people can't secretly build bombs in their bedroom.

Let's also all walk around naked so people can't conceal weapons... After all, if you have nothing to hide...

Caged · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:53

Is the claim that a WhatsApp message was sent minutes before the attack factual or is it being made up to further some cause? Because presumably if you have a timestamped message sat in front of you then you're already in the app on the phone.

dowie · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:56

Caged said:
Is the claim that a WhatsApp message was sent minutes before the attack factual or is it being made up to further some cause? Because presumably if you have a timestamped message sat in front of you then you're already in the app on the phone.

if they had access to the phone they'd be able to read the message

it could be they've got the metadata from WhatsApp - then again they should be able to find the other person's phone from that unless it was a PAYG/burner phone - even then they could try tracking it via the network

it is all rather a dubious excuse to try and force tech companies to break/put backdoors in end to end encryption

scorza · 27 Mar 2017 at 19:57

Haggisman said:
How about a better analogy. Let's make all our houses, cupboards, etc. out of glass and perspex so that people can't secretly build bombs in their bedroom.

Let's also all walk around naked so people can't conceal weapons... After all, if you have nothing to hide...

Or maybe we could find a happy medium?

Haggisman · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:00

scorza said:
Or maybe we could find a happy medium?

Such as not making our houses out of glass, but instead forcing everyone to have cameras in every room which the government have 24/7 access to and no-one else could possibly hack into?

Caged · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:00

This old one again. Encryption is either broken or it isn't. A happy medium isn't possible.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:04

I'm not really too bothered, just like Apple WhatsApp will tell them to jog on.
No chance they will compromise the security of their app by embedding a backdoor and I bet they are loving all this free advertising :-)

StriderX · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:32

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
I'm not really too bothered, just like Apple WhatsApp will tell them to jog on.
No chance they will compromise the security of their app by embedding a backdoor and I bet they are loving all this free advertising

You mean... they'll tell them to "Jog on" while simultaneously offering the backdoor anyway for a fee.

Caged · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:43

Apple aren't going to offer a back door in their phones to the UK government and take the inevitable sales hit that will accompany it. There is marketable value in the attitude that Apple and co. have to this topic.

Mynight · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:45

Facebook would probably be happy to read whatsapp messages.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 27 Mar 2017 at 20:54

StriderX said:
You mean... they'll tell them to "Jog on" while simultaneously offering the backdoor anyway for a fee.

No chance, that would come back to bite them on the ass when someone else finally manages to exploit the backdoor.
They wouldn't risk their reputation/company by getting involved in a conspiracy!

StriderX · 27 Mar 2017 at 21:05

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
No chance, that would come back to bite them on the ass when someone else finally manages to exploit the backdoor.
They wouldn't risk their reputation/company by getting involved in a conspiracy!

Well see how it pans out when Cook retires and they shove in the next downgrade from Jobs, i wouldn't put it past the US intelligence community to smother Apple with a toady if it came down to the wire.

Also PRISM would like to say hello on the "not getting involved in conspiracy" idea.

V F · 27 Mar 2017 at 21:17

Suicidal Ferret said:
Should we not lock our doors or cars then? Burglars and theives will always get in if they are truly determined to

Greebo · 27 Mar 2017 at 21:24

Caged said:
Is the claim that a WhatsApp message was sent minutes before the attack factual or is it being made up to further some cause? Because presumably if you have a timestamped message sat in front of you then you're already in the app on the phone.

What I heard is that they know he logged into the what'sapp app a few minutes before he started the killing spree. They don't know if he sent a message or received one. They are assuming if he logged in just minutes before it was to do either.

Of course it might have been a goodbye message to a loved one or family member

Vonhelmet · 27 Mar 2017 at 22:01

Haggisman said:
And the omgterrorists spend a week or 2 writing their own system and the whole thing is moot...

If encryption is criminalised then only criminals will use encryption...