AMD 2xx series how did they get it so wrong?

[flopper]

I buy a 290 due to I think they got it down perfectly.
value and performance spot on.
Lot of people bought it and most have no issue with the fan at all.

its like all those who replace the cpu fan cooler also.
why isnt the Intel cooler ok to use?

 

[Gregster]

Here is a range of memes in celebration of these classic threads.

Is that carpet on the walls?

 

[Stanners]

You're completely missing the point that the 780's are widely available with much better cooling solutions than stock, unlike the 290's currently

I give up with this, where do these people come from.

Ok, what fan profile did your 290 become too loud as compared to your 780, was it fine at stock settings etc.

Now I can't compare a 780 but I do have a 680, my 290x at 1100mhz and a fan profile of 55% is not noticeably any different to the 680.

I look forward to hearing what you found

 

[Freddie1980]

Stumbling into this thread feels like I've entered into the land of the barbarian.

 

[pgi947]

Should we state some facts and weed out the trolls?

Do the 290/290x/780/Titan all offer quiet performance at stock, yes.

Is the 290x ahead of Titan at stock and the 290 ahead of the 780 at stock at low noise levels, yes.

Do all 4 cards throttle at various times at stock, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability to have their fans turned up for more performance and less throttling, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability of throttling less, running cooler and overclocking further with 3rd party cooling, yes.

Are AMD cards categorically priced under Nvidia cards and in fact caused Nvidia prices to drop significantly to where they are now anyway(realistically talking here about 780ti being introduced rather than Titan to be dropped to £500 and upsetting all those who bought them), yes.

Is the Titan/780gtx cooler SO good that it ends up faster than the 290x, no, does it still throttle, yes, is it any where near as good as third party coolers, no, so can the stock Titan/780gtx cooler therefore easily be improved on.... yes.

So to sum up, 780gtx cooler is NOT the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better. The 290x is not the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better.


But Nvidia are great and AMD failed? Yes, the trolling/fanboyism is insanely clear to see.

Could AMD have made the cooler £20 better and cool better, yes, could Nvidia, yes, but what was to stop both companies making it £40 better, or £60 better, or £100 better, nothing. Where do you stop exactly?

There isn't a card produced in the past decade that couldn't have had a better air cooler installed at stock and produced a better and faster overall card...... this is not a problem for Nvidia cards, just AMD cards, despite being in identical situations.

If we actually get down to the physics of the situation, a larger core with the same power output is significantly easier to cool. The 780gtx/titan/ti is 26% larger, that is 26% more area to transfer heat into the cooler, it is literally easier to cool and you literally can't say one
cooler is better than another unless they are being used on the same heat source.

Very well put DM.

Everyone should be forced to read this before they post

 

[uksoldierboy]

You're completely missing the point that the 780's are widely available with much better cooling solutions than stock, unlike the 290's currently

your post made me wish i was in iraq with no internet access and for that reason, i'm out.

 

[phatboy]

Should we state some facts and weed out the trolls?

Do the 290/290x/780/Titan all offer quiet performance at stock, yes.

Is the 290x ahead of Titan at stock and the 290 ahead of the 780 at stock at low noise levels, yes.

Do all 4 cards throttle at various times at stock, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability to have their fans turned up for more performance and less throttling, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability of throttling less, running cooler and overclocking further with 3rd party cooling, yes.

Are AMD cards categorically priced under Nvidia cards and in fact caused Nvidia prices to drop significantly to where they are now anyway(realistically talking here about 780ti being introduced rather than Titan to be dropped to £500 and upsetting all those who bought them), yes.

Is the Titan/780gtx cooler SO good that it ends up faster than the 290x, no, does it still throttle, yes, is it any where near as good as third party coolers, no, so can the stock Titan/780gtx cooler therefore easily be improved on.... yes.

So to sum up, 780gtx cooler is NOT the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better. The 290x is not the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better.


But Nvidia are great and AMD failed? Yes, the trolling/fanboyism is insanely clear to see.

Could AMD have made the cooler £20 better and cool better, yes, could Nvidia, yes, but what was to stop both companies making it £40 better, or £60 better, or £100 better, nothing. Where do you stop exactly?

There isn't a card produced in the past decade that couldn't have had a better air cooler installed at stock and produced a better and faster overall card...... this is not a problem for Nvidia cards, just AMD cards, despite being in identical situations.

If we actually get down to the physics of the situation, a larger core with the same power output is significantly easier to cool. The 780gtx/titan/ti is 26% larger, that is 26% more area to transfer heat into the cooler, it is literally easier to cool and you literally can't say one cooler is better than another unless they are being used on the same heat source.

sir....i amongst others salute you

 

[LtMatt]

Drunkenmaster telling it like it is and ruffling more feathers than a tornado in the process.

 

[Kaapstad]

Should we state some facts and weed out the trolls?

Do the 290/290x/780/Titan all offer quiet performance at stock, yes.

Is the 290x ahead of Titan at stock and the 290 ahead of the 780 at stock at low noise levels, yes.

Do all 4 cards throttle at various times at stock, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability to have their fans turned up for more performance and less throttling, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability of throttling less, running cooler and overclocking further with 3rd party cooling, yes.

Are AMD cards categorically priced under Nvidia cards and in fact caused Nvidia prices to drop significantly to where they are now anyway(realistically talking here about 780ti being introduced rather than Titan to be dropped to £500 and upsetting all those who bought them), yes.

Is the Titan/780gtx cooler SO good that it ends up faster than the 290x, no, does it still throttle, yes, is it any where near as good as third party coolers, no, so can the stock Titan/780gtx cooler therefore easily be improved on.... yes.

So to sum up, 780gtx cooler is NOT the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better. The 290x is not the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better.


But Nvidia are great and AMD failed? Yes, the trolling/fanboyism is insanely clear to see.

Could AMD have made the cooler £20 better and cool better, yes, could Nvidia, yes, but what was to stop both companies making it £40 better, or £60 better, or £100 better, nothing. Where do you stop exactly?

There isn't a card produced in the past decade that couldn't have had a better air cooler installed at stock and produced a better and faster overall card...... this is not a problem for Nvidia cards, just AMD cards, despite being in identical situations.

If we actually get down to the physics of the situation, a larger core with the same power output is significantly easier to cool. The 780gtx/titan/ti is 26% larger, that is 26% more area to transfer heat into the cooler, it is literally easier to cool and you literally can't say one cooler is better than another unless they are being used on the same heat source.

I agree with nearly everything, the only thing I don't agree with is the throttling on the Titans. To avoid throttling you can turn up the fans and raise the thermal limit to 90c. Having used 4 Titans on air, I did not have any problems with throttling. Having said that raising the thermal limit to 90c means we are starting to get into 290X territory.

Running 290Xs overclocked on air and Titans doing the same with a high fan speed there is not that much difference in the temps they reach, low to mid 80s.

Here is a fun one, running my different rigs at stock in order of loudest to quietest

Titans water cooled loudest (16 fans).
GTX 690s on air
R9 290Xs Uber mode on air quietest lol

 

[555BUK]

The cooler on the 290/290X is AMD's only balls-up. Had they spent an extra $5 or so on the reference design, nobody would have anything to complain about. As it is, the £310 290 and £420 290X actually cost an extra £60 each if you want to run them as cool and quietly as NVidia reference cards. This puts an equivalent 290 at £370 and 290X at £480 (incl voided warranty).

Custom cooled cards will no doubt arrive with an initial ~£30 premium making 290's less of a bargain. With custom cooled 780's now selling for £370 upwards there really will not be much difference in price or performance.

 

[Kaapstad]

The cooler on the 290/290X is AMD's only balls-up. Had they spent an extra $5 or so on the reference design, nobody would have anything to complain about. As it is, the £310 290 and £420 290X actually cost an extra £60 each if you want to run them as cool and quietly as NVidia reference cards. This puts an equivalent 290 at £370 and 290X at £480 (incl voided warranty).

Custom cooled cards will no doubt arrive with an initial ~£30 premium making 290's less of a bargain. With custom cooled 780's now selling for £370 upwards there really will not be much difference in price or performance.

It will be interesting to see how the 290X runs with some of the non ref coolers, the 290X uses a lot more power than NVidia cards.

 

[VincentHanna]

I think you'll find the 780ti is the new king of power usage.

 

[ubersonic]

NO WE DIDN'T, IT'S FUD!

That thread needs to be deleted, if I was AMD I would sue.

Check the main thread, AMD have now narrowed down the issue and released a statement and fix, although it was a widespread issue (present on all cards just not affecting all) it was simply blind luck that the review sample performed better than the retail cards and not vise versa.

 

[IceWind]

AMD had all the time in the world to design a gpu with a decent stock cooler that surpasses the 780/titan. Instead they designed a chip that is too hot too slow and pales in comparison to the excellent 7xxx series. And then we got the golden samples and throttling issues. It's so bad that it makes the gtx 480 that got so much criticism look amazing. Is amd's cpu failures draining funds from the gpu department? Nvidia has not been such a clear choice since the dreadful ati 2900.

I just dont know what to say....

1. It does surpass the 780 and titan

2. The Golden Samples thing is a myth. my 290x works as it said on the tin.

3. Ive never had mine throttle yet. My card seems to cap out at 89oC

4. Its the second fastest single gpu card on the market. Its less than 10% slower than the fastest card but 30% cheaper.


The card is only held back by its cooler. I can overclock mine to 1198 on the core and still not exceed 95oC once I strap some watercooling on this I reckon il slaughter the 780ti. And once 3rd part vendors start strapping on their coolers along with hand selecting high performing cores youl find the the performance between the 780ti and the 290x to be almost equal.

 

[Martini1991]

My R290's underperforming, cross referencing results....

That's it running 100% fan.

 

[SouthEastBlue]

We can always just revisit this thread when the 3rd party coolers come into play, I don't see how the 290X has failed at all considering it's price in relation to Nvidia.

 

[ubersonic]

We can always just revisit this thread when the 3rd party coolers come into play, I don't see how the 290X has failed at all considering it's price in relation to Nvidia.

This ^

Although my software usage dictates Nvidia I consider the R2xx to be a great success, price/performance off the scale and caused Nvidia to drop prices, yes the reference card does have the fan/heat characteristics of a card from a bygone era but the are plenty of 8800 Ultras and GTX480's still running so if AMD say it's fine I for one believe them.

 

[kitch9]

AMD's decision to not use a slightly better cooling design is a touch baffling, not that I think that the cards will have any type of long term issues just that high temps are a bit taboo in the community.

Saying that from reports of people fitting aftermarket coolers the problem becomes a complete non issue with the card performing the same as their competitors thermally which further cements my thoughts. Hell my new 7990 runs at much coller temps whilst being much faster and a lot quieter. (I don't have any coil whine thankfully.)

 

[Krait]

I buy a 290 due to I think they got it down perfectly.
value and performance spot on.
Lot of people bought it and most have no issue with the fan at all.

its like all those who replace the cpu fan cooler also.
why isnt the Intel cooler ok to use?

I'll never understand why anyone would ever use a reference cooler on any graphic card :/

I've been using Arctic cooler's since the days of the 9800pro (VGA Silencer iirc) and I'll never buy a card based on noise/heat etc - it's always based on price/performance (or just performance in the case of the 8800gtx)

 

[Scougar]

Troll thread? I don't see for a second how AMD got it wrong. The title of this thread only really needs to be about the cooler. The card was that good, it forced a massive price cut to Nvidia's line, so obviously they saw it as enough of a threat. It out performs the 780 for significantly less cost, and sometimes also the Titan. How is that wrong?

My R290's underperforming, cross referencing results....

That's it running 100% fan.

Seriously, send it back. If you are having to run at 100% fan to keep it below 95C (You don't actually say).. then something is very wrong. It could be something else in your system/setup causing issues if it's underperforming, or maybe you have a weak CPU etc?

I used to think certain cards were terrible etc, until I discovered other problems. I had an x1950xt, and that would just artifact everywhere, it was a little better at 100% fan but still artifacted, was horrendous. As it turned out, all I needed to do was adjust the PCI-E frequency from 100 to 101mhz, and the problem was fixed. Sometimes the solutions are not obvious.

If anyone thinks Nvidia cards are exempt from problems and they only affect AMD, you need a reality check.