AMD 2xx series how did they get it so wrong?

teppic · 10 Nov 2013 at 11:46

Martini1991 said:
How long was that for?

The Metro LL benchmarks? Each run takes about 2 minutes I think.

thefogo · 10 Nov 2013 at 11:48

teppic said:
It's useful to show extremetech's own testing whenever the nvidia slide crops up:

Damn O_O

Martini1991 · 10 Nov 2013 at 11:49

teppic said:
The Metro LL benchmarks? Each run takes about 2 minutes I think.

And the 47% fan just couldn't handle the heat after about the 6th minute? (None sustained load either, as there would be a pause between each run)
Cracking fix that was

teppic · 10 Nov 2013 at 11:51

Martini1991 said:
And the 47% fan just couldn't handle the heat for 2 minutes.
Cracking fix that was

That doesn't show any throttling until about 5-6 mins of very intense GPU stress - though extremetech said 50% fan was enough to remove it and maintain constant performance, 47% slightly too little, although it's quite minor and in line with the reviews (a couple of FPS).

Martini1991 · 10 Nov 2013 at 11:55

I don't play games in 6 minute stints....
Longer play at 47% you'll probably see it throttle again.

teppic · 10 Nov 2013 at 11:58

Martini1991 said:
I don't play games in 6 minute stints....
Longer play at 47% you'll probably see it throttle again.

Not much will hit the GPU harder than Metro LL's benchmark. It's doing what it's supposed to do though, the fan is at a lower speed to avoid high noise at the cost of a little drop in performance. At 50%+ they couldn't get any throttling. It's the 40% speed that's clearly not good enough and what nvidia uses in their test.

thefogo · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:00

^That will probably change when summer hits, though.

Martini1991 · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:01

LtMatt said:
Nothing surprises me these days. I reckon Nvidia must spend more time testing AMD cards than they do their own. I can't ever remember AMD spending time pointing out flaws with Nvidia cards.

Were you not around when Fermi launched?

Martini1991 · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:02

thefogo said:
^That will probably change when summer hits, though.

Indeed.

I've spent some time with my 290.
It's a cracking card, it needs better cooling.

teppic · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:10

I'm going to wait for the 290 custom cooled ones and then probably get one. The ref 290 at 47% fan still gives amazing performance for the money but I want silent fans.

Orangey · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:13

AMD in their Q&A said they kept the old cooler because of requirements of OEMs.

But I think that's not quite true, why not spend the money now developing a new cooler, presumably they will have to for Pirate Islands and beyond. Or will they go back to making smaller chips that run cooler?

mrozik · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:17

I always set my fan @50 and let it run! my h100i is still louder than that tbh so i don't see why people hate i also use headset so i can't hear anything but the BF4 nades and stuff xD

GoogalyMoogaly · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:20

LtMatt said:
Nothing surprises me these days. I reckon Nvidia must spend more time testing AMD cards than they do their own. I can't ever remember AMD spending time pointing out flaws with Nvidia cards.

Just as well someone does as AMD apparently didn't bother.
Look at Nvidia giving back to the community while AMD release cards with half-***** coolers with massively inconsistent fan speeds that under AMD original settings throttled the cards. AMD apparently didn't find this themselves or if they did not until after they'd shipped/launched the card!

I for one would like to thank Nvidia for helping to make the 290 perform the way it should have from the start!

TheRealDeal · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:35

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Look at Nvidia giving back to the community

Surely you did not have a straight face while writing these words. The best joke i have heard all year.

LtMatt · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:35

drunkenmaster said:
Should we state some facts and weed out the trolls?

Do the 290/290x/780/Titan all offer quiet performance at stock, yes.

Is the 290x ahead of Titan at stock and the 290 ahead of the 780 at stock at low noise levels, yes.

Do all 4 cards throttle at various times at stock, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability to have their fans turned up for more performance and less throttling, yes.

Do all 4 cards have the capability of throttling less, running cooler and overclocking further with 3rd party cooling, yes.

Are AMD cards categorically priced under Nvidia cards and in fact caused Nvidia prices to drop significantly to where they are now anyway(realistically talking here about 780ti being introduced rather than Titan to be dropped to £500 and upsetting all those who bought them), yes.

Is the Titan/780gtx cooler SO good that it ends up faster than the 290x, no, does it still throttle, yes, is it any where near as good as third party coolers, no, so can the stock Titan/780gtx cooler therefore easily be improved on.... yes.

So to sum up, 780gtx cooler is NOT the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better. The 290x is not the pinnacle of cooling, it does not prevent thermal throttling and third party cooling is significantly better.

But Nvidia are great and AMD failed? Yes, the trolling/fanboyism is insanely clear to see.

Could AMD have made the cooler £20 better and cool better, yes, could Nvidia, yes, but what was to stop both companies making it £40 better, or £60 better, or £100 better, nothing. Where do you stop exactly?

There isn't a card produced in the past decade that couldn't have had a better air cooler installed at stock and produced a better and faster overall card...... this is not a problem for Nvidia cards, just AMD cards, despite being in identical situations.

If we actually get down to the physics of the situation, a larger core with the same power output is significantly easier to cool. The 780gtx/titan/ti is 26% larger, that is 26% more area to transfer heat into the cooler, it is literally easier to cool and you literally can't say one cooler is better than another unless they are being used on the same heat source.

r7slayer · 10 Nov 2013 at 12:35

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Just as well someone does as AMD apparently didn't bother.
Look at Nvidia giving back to the community while AMD release cards with half-***** coolers with massively inconsistent fan speeds that under AMD original settings throttled the cards. AMD apparently didn't find this themselves or if they did not until after they'd shipped/launched the card!

I for one would like to thank Nvidia for helping to make the 290 perform the way it should have from the start!

Lets be honest all reference coolers are not great and hold cards back. Unless you happy with stock? Same goes for CPU coolers unless you running stock. When I buy a card I like to push it to what it can actually achieve and not leaving under stock values or a mild overclock. To something what it can actually achieve and that has to be done via third party cooling or non reference cooling. So you point of NVidia helping to make the 290 perform the way it should is nonsense. NVidia are just using this as PR to their advantage really.

Cant wait for vendors to start brining out their own coolers on the cards so we can see some great overclock and put all these non believers down

bru · 10 Nov 2013 at 13:18

You can say that this is all fine as much as you like, but the bottom line is the card they released wasn't fit for purpose, they had to fix things with a faster fan profile in the first set of driver's.
It's not a bad card, the performance is certainly there but I strongly disagree with this upto 1000 MHz business, especially seeing as vendors are advertising it as 1000 MHz with no mention of the term upto in the descriptions at all.

Just very poor showing from AMD in my opinion.

Before anyone says, but you can change the fan profile or even the heatsink and fan yourself easily. You shouldn't have too, imagine if you bought the latest and greatest hot hatch but to get it to do more than 100 mph you had to change the engine mapping or replace the exhaust, fine if it is advertised as only doing 100mph but not if it is advertised as doing 130 mph.

GoogalyMoogaly · 10 Nov 2013 at 13:32

TheRealDeal said:
Surely you did not have a straight face while writing these words. The best joke i have heard all year.

I direct you to this bit:

GoogalyMoogaly said:

Stanners · 10 Nov 2013 at 13:54

bru said:
You can say that this is all fine as much as you like, but the bottom line is the card they released wasn't fit for purpose, they had to fix things with a faster fan profile in the first set of driver's.
It's not a bad card, the performance is certainly there but I strongly disagree with this upto 1000 MHz business, especially seeing as vendors are advertising it as 1000 MHz with no mention of the term upto in the descriptions at all.

Just very poor showing from AMD in my opinion.

Before anyone says, but you can change the fan profile or even the heatsink and fan yourself easily. You shouldn't have too, imagine if you bought the latest and greatest hot hatch but to get it to do more than 100 mph you had to change the engine mapping or replace the exhaust, fine if it is advertised as only doing 100mph but not if it is advertised as doing 130 mph.

Yeah imagine if they were total retards and released a driver that bricked cards.

tommybhoy · 10 Nov 2013 at 14:06

bru said:
You can say that this is all fine as much as you like, but the bottom line is the card they released wasn't fit for purpose, they had to fix things with a faster fan profile in the first set of driver's.

At least AMD fix problems within days, how long did it take to get a non '**** your pants' driver for the 780's???