AMD announce EPYC

[Journey]

Meanwhile back in the EPYC CPU thread...

You can't argue that seeing what they produce with their backs against the wall will be really interesting. At first they were all like "They are just gluing cores together, dont accept that", now a year down the line it's like "Oh **** we better learn the recipe for that magical IF glue".

The most interesting bit for me will be memory config and how their solution scales, anything less than near perfect ryzen like scaling and performance will be seen as missing the mark. The benchmark for an mcm x86 design has been set and now it's Intel's turn to show some engineering prowess. It is time for the big boys to lay it on the table and in my opinion all we need to know is how short they fall. Sadly I just don't think their first iteration will fall in the same ballpark for all metrics but being Intel you really would be a fool to completely write them off.

I don't think it will be anywhere near as efficient in PPW compared to Zen2 cored EPYC on 7nm, and that is the killer especially where TCO is concerned. Also two large 24 core monolithic dies in one package, is that going to need a new socket, more than likely. I'd never write them off, they must have something in the bottom drawer for a rainy day.

 

[Vince]

Meanwhile back in the EPYC CPU thread...

I don't think it will be anywhere near as efficient in PPW compared to Zen2 cored EPYC on 7nm, and that is the killer especially where TCO is concerned. Also two large 24 core monolithic dies in one package, is that going to need a new socket, more than likely. I'd never write them off, they must have something in the bottom drawer for a rainy day.

I couldn't agree more, it won't be nearly as efficient, not nearly as easy or cheap to produce, won't scale in the same fashion and I just can't see it being that competative in terms of clockspeed and thermals. I feel it will be a heavily compromised design just so they can say "look us too, we can deploy some magic glue of our own".

Where things should get exciting is 2021 because between now and then, if the tech press are to be believed, Intel basically have nothing, no new designs, no new node, no capacity and a resurgence of their only real competitor. 3 years with nothing for OEMs is a long time especially when the rest of the industry has found new and exciting ways of pushing the envelope.

I suspect some of the gpu talk in here is also my bad with pointing out some of the Vega/Polaris bits earlier on. As interesting as it is with all the Intel and amd licensing agreements as well as the random nuances of some of these designs it really doesnt need to creep into here. I feel that the gpu space pales in comparison with what we have to talk about here and now with epyc. I am far from a fanboy either way but the sheer genius in design and execution of the whole ryzen/epyc product stack really is something that is quite special even if you are in the Intel camp looking subjectively at how it plays out you can't help but admire the thinking and engineering that went into it.

 

[SiDeards73]

I think silicon has reached near as far as it can go in a single chip or monolithic die if you will.

AMD took the gamble of smaller chips glued together and got amazing results, yes there are some inefficiency there, latency etc.

These are all targets that they can work on, the foundation is there, but the main point is they have beaten Intel to it.

Intel have no option but to join the bandwagon I think, the days of churning out massive core count single chips is over, not when your competitors can better you with their multi chip solutions at drastically lower costs and within small % of the performance.

Intel have their foundation laid for this type of architecture now too, I fully expect they are working on beating AMD at their own game, with glued together CPUs.

AMD again though knew Intel would have to mimic this or lose more share, so AMD are delivering the next blow in the form of 7nm.

So not only do AMD currently hold an architectural advantage, that's not only lower cost, delivers performance near the Intel chips, also runs at a lower running cost, which is one of the main selling point in enterprise, they soon will hold the node advantage as well.

If AMD better Zen+ significantly, they could well pass the current Intel performance, on their first 7nm version, I fully expect them to revise it as well perhaps more than once while Intel is still playing catch up.

7nm could be a pivotal moment in the CPU industry, as it could quite clearly leave Intel in a lot of troubles yes they have a ton of cash, but that could also be said of many other companies that got caught with their pants down.

Of anything AMD are going to do more for the CPU industry in 3 or so years than Intel has managed in 10+

 

[Vince]

I think silicon has reached near as far as it can go in a single chip or monolithic die if you will.

AMD took the gamble of smaller chips glued together and got amazing results, yes there are some inefficiency there, latency etc.

These are all targets that they can work on, the foundation is there, but the main point is they have beaten Intel to it.

Intel have no option but to join the bandwagon I think, the days of churning out massive core count single chips is over, not when your competitors can better you with their multi chip solutions at drastically lower costs and within small % of the performance.

Intel have their foundation laid for this type of architecture now too, I fully expect they are working on beating AMD at their own game, with glued together CPUs.

AMD again though knew Intel would have to mimic this or lose more share, so AMD are delivering the next blow in the form of 7nm.

So not only do AMD currently hold an architectural advantage, that's not only lower cost, delivers performance near the Intel chips, also runs at a lower running cost, which is one of the main selling point in enterprise, they soon will hold the node advantage as well.

If AMD better Zen+ significantly, they could well pass the current Intel performance, on their first 7nm version, I fully expect them to revise it as well perhaps more than once while Intel is still playing catch up.

7nm could be a pivotal moment in the CPU industry, as it could quite clearly leave Intel in a lot of troubles yes they have a ton of cash, but that could also be said of many other companies that got caught with their pants down.

Of anything AMD are going to do more for the CPU industry in 3 or so years than Intel has managed in 10+

It's basically Athlon 64 round 2 isn't it? Genuinely interesting stuff being put on the table, those early signs of that true "next gen" slapped in front of you for the first time. Epyc 2 is shaping up to be that r300 (gpu reference ), the thing that absolutely crushes everything that came before and makes the industry stand up and take note. The thing is we all know how this goes, history says AMD innovate, intel take it on the chin perfect a similar design and run away with it. Is it really any different this time?

 

[Journey]

It's basically Athlon 64 round 2 isn't it? Genuinely interesting stuff being put on the table, those early signs of that true "next gen" slapped in front of you for the first time. Epyc 2 is shaping up to be that r300 (gpu reference ), the thing that absolutely crushes everything that came before and makes the industry stand up and take note. The thing is we all know how this goes, history says AMD innovate, intel take it on the chin perfect a similar design and run away with it. Is it really any different this time?

Intel are in a slightly different predicament due to the process node issues, that might delay the steamroller for about a year, so 2022/23.

 

[LePhuronn]

GTX 1080 (non-Ti) can't be "high end" forever.

By the time Navi luanches in Q4 2019, 1080 perf is where the mid-range from both parties should be.

It's going to need to be around that ballpark btw, to make the next gen of consoles worth upgrading to. Otherwise how will they achieve 4k/60 as promised?

If you expect Navi to be sub 1080 perf you're going to have to explain how that makes sense in both the console and PC markets.

e: the X1X is already around 1070 perf btw, according to developers.

Hang on, who said anything about GTX 1080 being high end? Nvidia's classification of it and people's perceptions of it are irrelevant to the discussion here and the point being made: AMD said Navi will be a mid-tier product, Navi is expected to be GTX 1080 performance. I'm not sure where the confusion or argument comes from in this regard.

Anyway, back to EPYC...

 

[FoxEye]

Nobody is under any illusions that Navi is a GTX 1080 performance card. What little AMD have come out with say Navi is a mid-tier product. <snip>

Hang on, who said anything about GTX 1080 being high end? Nvidia's classification of it and people's perceptions of it are irrelevant to the discussion here and the point being made: AMD said Navi will be a mid-tier product, Navi is expected to be GTX 1080 performance. I'm not sure where the confusion or argument comes from in this regard.

Confused.com

 

[LePhuronn]

Confused.com

I'll second that. What are you trying to say or misunderstanding here?

 

[FoxEye]

I'll second that. What are you trying to say or misunderstanding here?

"Nobody is under any illusions that Navi is a GTX 1080 performance card."

I don't think that means what you think it means.

That sentence means it's *not* a 1080 perf card, and moreover that nobody thinks it is.

 

[LePhuronn]

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Or you're being pedantic because I made a typo and didn't phrase it particularly well. I think it's pretty obvious by my subsequent posts what I mean. And as a result, there's not really much more to add, especially on a thread about EPYC.

 

[FoxEye]

Pointing out a contradiction is not being pedantic, for goodness sake. I genuinely had and still somewhat don't have a clue what you were trying to say.

But forget it if you're going to be defensive as hell about it. It's not important.

 

[LePhuronn]

OK, my bad phrasing in that single line was confusing. Conceded. But within context over everything else I posted I think it's pretty obvious what I actually meant, even if my fat fingers failed me. Interesting how you interpret a counterpoint as me somehow being "defensive as hell". The lady doth protest too much?

But in any case, yes it's not important.

 

[Panos]

No further comment....
Intel is turning off SMT on EPYC CPU to show that their 48 core is faster

 

[Journey]

Already mentioned 2 pages back.

 

[Panos]

Already mentioned 2 pages back.

You are mistaken.... You posted only that it will have 48 and no HT at 300W at 1.8ghz......

However you didn't said anything else like Intel made a presentation showing it's performance beating the EPYC 7601, but on the small notes, they had turned off SMT on the EPYC CPU.
Nor that it will be 225W, at higher clocks.

So Intel continues shady tactics even on the Server market, crippling the AMD competitor CPU to make it's own products look better.
Like it happened on the 9900K launch.

 

[4K8KW10]

You are mistaken.... You posted only that it will have 48 and no HT at 300W at 1.8ghz......

However you didn't said anything else like Intel made a presentation showing it's performance beating the EPYC 7601, but on the small notes, they had turned off SMT on the EPYC CPU.
Nor that it will be 225W, at higher clocks.

So Intel continues shady tactics even on the Server market, crippling the AMD competitor CPU to make it's own products look better.
Like it happened on the 9900K launch.

A world without Intel - a better world Intel has caused troubles not only to its competitors, but more importantly, to all of us - introducing years of stagnation and without meaningful products to upgrade with.

 

[Panos]

A world without Intel - a better world Intel has caused troubles not only to its competitors, but more importantly, to all of us - introducing years of stagnation and without meaningful products to upgrade with.

Though some expect Intel as the new Messiah in the GPU section, even asking for the demise of AMD......

 

[4K8KW10]

Though some expect Intel as the new Messiah in the GPU section, even asking for the demise of AMD......

Intel is nothing more than a dictator who tries to define everything - define how large its own profits are, define how high the prices will stay, define the destiny of everyone around them.
People who support democracy and fair competition with more choice should be able to see this....

 

[4K8KW10]

So, Rome is 8 8-core chiplets, and not 4 16-core chiplets. This means no 6-core CCX and it means Ryzen 7 3700 can be an octo-core

 

[Journey]

Well given what has just been shown Intel better bring the goods with 10nm server CPU's or they are going to be bleeding market share by the end of 2019.