AMD announce EPYC

[SiDeards73]

*snrkk!*

Give me open standards or give me death!



Intel buried AMD with anti-competitive pricing and incentives last time AMD stole a march on them. And they have very deep pockets. Could they do it again?

Think AMD have covered that base with quite simply a better chip at the same price point, you get more cores and a lower TDP i think on AMD.. which generally equates to better cost saving and Datacenter is definitely about perf per £ Spent overall.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Think AMD have covered that base with quite simply a better chip at the same price point, you get more cores and a lower TDP i think on AMD.. which generally equates to better cost saving and Datacenter is definitely about perf per £ Spent overall.

Good point. You can't do much to offset running costs no matter how much you discount the purchase price. (Not even Intel will pay you to take their chips! )

 

[humbug]

*snrkk!*

Give me open standards or give me death!



Intel buried AMD with anti-competitive pricing and incentives last time AMD stole a march on them. And they have very deep pockets. Could they do it again?

Last time they literally paid customers not to use AMD's chips, Dell for example received $800m per year from Intel as payment not to use AMD chips at all.

That would not work these days.
Back then there was only a few big customers wanting chips and Intel was rich enough to dump money on them not to use AMD's products for long enough to push AMD to the brink of bankruptcy.
Today the market is vastly bigger and much much more international, if Intel tried to pay off the entire market now Intel would bankrupt themselves over night, so all they can do is try to compete with AMD.

 

[LePhuronn]

Intel buried AMD with anti-competitive pricing and incentives last time AMD stole a march on them. And they have very deep pockets. Could they do it again?

Intel would need to have a product they can sell. It's all well and good bribing incentivising customers to use your CPUs, but if you can't actually supply CPUs then all the money in the world won't keep a customer on your side.

 

[humbug]

They are not going to stop AMD, not this time.
Even Intel reducing their pricing in the drastic way that they apparently are will slow or even cap AMD's march, it will not stop it, AMD will still and actually are gaining Marketshare from Intel.

IMO this is how this will pan out:
Intel lose some, not a lot but some market share to AMD, on top of that Intel will reduce their margins to stop AMD from expanding a lot.

Intel is massive compared to AMD, Intel have massively more overheads, AMD can reduce their pricing by a lot more than Intel can and still make enough money to remain healthy.
Intel could sell their CPU's to data centres at a loss AMD could match it and still make money because they are 10 times smaller and don't need to sell what costs them $150 to make for $4000, Intel do.

So Intel can cut pricing all they want, it does not stop AMD from growing, all that will happen is Intel will set a new much lower pricing standard at their expense.

 

[SiDeards73]

I think the issues Intel is having now is another reason they are pushing into the GPU arena, its kinda a double whammy for them, Nvidia has overtaken them in some AI stuff and bits n bobs that Intel owned previously but just cannot compete with due to GPU arch being better than CPU arch. Also by entering the GPU arena they are fighting AMD on both fronts "if your going to take our marketshare in CPU, were going to take your marketshare in GPU" unfortunately i think were all expecting Intel to be more expensive than AMD if they have a similar or slightly faster product, they'll want to take share out of Nvidia as much as they will AMD.

Its shaping up to be an interesting market in PC components, we could see some price wars kicking off between Blue Green and Red in the GPU arena, and AMD and Intel in the CPU arena, AMD are in the position where they will have a superior product in the CPU arena, and will target the low to mid sector in the GPU market, hopefully Intel come out with high end gear to compete with Nvidia... and Intel are more likely to use Adaptive Sync which suits us freesync users.

 

[humbug]

We could do with a third player in the GPU space, if Intel's GPU's are good enough at the right price i'll buy one, no qualms about that, i just bought a new 32" 1440P Free-Sync screen and i would love to make use of the Free-Sync portion of it.

However i'm not that optimistic, between them AMD and Nvidia own a lot of IP for Graphics, i don't know what exactly but its been a very very long time since Intel ventured into Graphics, a lot of new stuff has been invented since then and at least some of it will be critical to performance / features and Intel may not have right to use it.

Unless they have a licencing agreement with one of graphics duopoly.

 

[blaineoliver]

*snrkk!*

Give me open standards or give me death!



Intel buried AMD with anti-competitive pricing and incentives last time AMD stole a march on them. And they have very deep pockets. Could they do it again?

Of course they could do it again. They probably will do something.

 

[Vince]

We could do with a third player in the GPU space, if Intel's GPU's are good enough at the right price i'll buy one, no qualms about that, i just bought a new 32" 1440P Free-Sync screen and i would love to make use of the Free-Sync portion of it.

However i'm not that optimistic, between them AMD and Nvidia own a lot of IP for Graphics, i don't know what exactly but its been a very very long time since Intel ventured into Graphics, a lot of new stuff has been invented since then and at least some of it will be critical to performance / features and Intel may not have right to use it.

Unless they have a licencing agreement with one of graphics duopoly.

Well we know they already have in roads into AMD and with Raja over there I wouldn't be surprised if they license some AMD ip. Lets not forget this:



Makes me smile every time I need to open it up. Intel branded AMD software They must already have some kind of agreement in place for Hades Canyon / Kaby-Lake G to exist.

 

[humbug]

Well we know they already have in roads into AMD and with Raja over there I wouldn't be surprised if they license some AMD ip. Lets not forget this:



Makes me smile every time I need to open it up. Intel branded AMD software They must already have some kind of agreement in place for Hades Canyon / Kaby-Lake G to exist.

I have never seen that, holy cow... lol

 

[Panos]

I have never seen that, holy cow... lol

Is the Vega IGP on the Kabylakes

 

[humbug]

Is the Vega IGP on the Kabylakes

I know

 

[Lokken86]

I know

It's actually the most powerful of all the integrated Vegas too. 24CU's

 

[Vince]

It's actually the most powerful of all the integrated Vegas too. 24CU's

Well that depends, mine is Vega M GL which is a 20CU part in my Spectre x360, then there is Vega M GH which is 24CU's and finally big Vega Mobile RX which is 28CU. Biggest integrated is the 24 though with 4gb hbm

 

[Lokken86]

Well that depends, mine is Vega M GL which is a 20CU part in my Spectre x360, then there is Vega M GH which is 24CU's and finally big Vega Mobile RX which is 28CU. Biggest integrated is the 24 though with 4gb hbm

Makes you wonder how they got these with dedicated HBM instead of sharing system RAM.

 

[Gerard]

It's actually the most powerful of all the integrated Vegas too. 24CU's

It's weird that intel actually done this considering they're meant to be developing their own gaming gpu. Suppose its a stopgap thing until when\if they get their own gpu off the ground in a few years.

 

[h4rm0ny]

It's weird that intel actually done this considering they're meant to be developing their own gaming gpu. Suppose its a stopgap thing until when\if they get their own gpu off the ground in a few years.

I guess they figure that the enemy of my nvidia is my friend. AMD aren't the big threat in GPUs right now (much as I love the company), Nvidia are. So I guess they're willing to ally with AMD if it slows down Nvidia.

 

[Vince]

Makes you wonder how they got these with dedicated HBM instead of sharing system RAM.

What's weird about the smaller parts like M GL/GH is that even though they rock 4GB hbm they are actually a sort of vega/polaris hybrid, they don't have all vega features and share more in common with Polaris in terms of feature set, yet they have a hbm memory subsystem and some other vega bits bolted on. It's fast too, especially in compute and will happily crunch at about half the rate of an actual discrete vega 56/64 and will exceed rx580 in many tasks.

The problem though, a bit like the new mac is that most machines that use them, use them because the whole package is small and allows you to manufacture a thin light weight machine, this generally means they don't really have the cooling that they should and as a result thermals are really the limiting factor, imo this is because they power limit the Kaby-Lake G at 65w when in reality to get whats really available you would probably need to run the thing at somewhere between 95w and 150w. Still though 4C/8T @ 3.1/4.1 boost along with 20CU Vega + 4gb hbm @ 65w is very impressive just a shame that the tdp figure is misrepresented to get the best out of it.

I bought the machine because I was interested in it's tech and because i wanted to mitigate spectre/meltdown and the bios for my old machine just wasn't getting updated and although it should be faster than my 6700hq + 6gb GTX970, when it comes to it the chassis and thermals mean it's just not really able to match that machine when gaming.

Also if history is anything to go by looking at the gpu space, I think intels gpu's will be utter pants, intel do great hardware (subjectively of course given how insecure their parts currently are) but have never been able to do software so imo they will probably have great hardware but be let down by drivers.

 

[Journey]

Also if history is anything to go by looking at the gpu space, I think intels gpu's will be utter pants, intel do great hardware (subjectively of course given how insecure their parts currently are) but have never been able to do software so imo they will probably have great hardware but be let down by drivers.

It's a different world now though, for GPU's especially with compute/AI/machine learning taking advantage of the GPU's. I think they have realised they actually need to make some serious inroads before Nvidia/AMD leave them behind selling out of date processors, when the rest of the world is using more and more GPU power. I'd be very surprised if they didn't invest heavily in their software team this time around, and collaborate closely with developers, and companies like Google/Amazon/IBM yes they are competition but if a product from another manufacturer can make you better then you use it. I bet AMD have some Xeon servers, or at least did somewhere.

 

[SiDeards73]

AMD New Horizons event tomorrow in the USA, saw a tweet from Ian Cutress saying there is no embargo on the content being shown and they are allowed to stream etc during the presentation... will be interesting to see what is actually unveiled.

Hopefully its some solid 7nm CPU and GPU news.