AMD Halts Optimizations for Mantle API

[andybird123]

^^

And afaic, that is a good amount of mantle games, how many DX 11 games did we see in the first year?

13 games had dx11 support in the first year, vs 6 for mantle

 

[Rroff]

I think it is safe to assume that any games that were rumoured to be getting mantle now won't be, as and aren't releasing any more drivers for mantle

It sets an unfortunate precedent (not that its the first) for developers looking at embracing an AMD pushed feature.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Star citizen does not have mantle

Actually Star Citizen does or was going to support mantle. It's more likely it will have been dropped for DX12 now i would imagine.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support

 

[Nexus18]

Amd said right from the beginning that mantle would only be around for as long as it was needed so it was pretty obvious that they had no plans to support it in the long run.

13 games had dx11 support in the first year, vs 6 for mantle

And if mantle had worked on nvidia as well, I'm sure we would have seen a much larger number so yeah that is good going afaic, even more so considering how different it is to DX 11 than what it was for DX 10 to 11

 

[D.P.]

Amd said right from the beginning that mantle would only be around for as long as it was needed so it was pretty obvious that they had no plans to support it in the long run.



And if mantle had worked on nvidia as well, I'm sure we would have seen a much larger number so yeah that is good going afaic, even more so considering how different it is to DX 11 than what it was for DX 10 to 11

If DX11 features worked on Dx10 hardware then the uptake would also be much bigger for DX11, as it was only a minority people had DX11 capable GPUs. When mantle came along they didn't have that issue

Comparing DX11 uptake to mantle is any case flawed however you want to present the data.

 

[Gregster]

Onwards and upwards they say. I did expect a bit more out of Mantle and I did expect my Fury X to be faster than a 290x in BF4 with it but so long as they are concentrating on DX12 and windows 10 (I don't care for any other platform in honesty), then good stuff.

 

[pgi947]

Awesome, a mantle thread, not had one of these for a while, see the circle-jerk is already in full swing too! Good times

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

^ Why we're excited.

Because now somebody else has to do the work but AMD will still take credit for it?
"Vulkan is Mantle, etc.", which I don't believe is exactly the truth, Mantle is just the basis for Vulkan. It was a nice start but needed to be finished off, polished up and have the rough edges removed. I see it a bit like a sketch before the painting, it's basically there but there's also a lot missing that is needed for people to really buy into it.

The thing is, didn't Huddy say in that long chat with PCper that was posted repeatedly that AMD would support this and other APIs and also said that the advantage of Mantle is that they directly control it and so can change it much faster to react to new features of their hardware than if a 3rd party controls it?
Neither of these seem to be the same as "we're going to hand it over to a 3rd party" or anything that suggests they had planned to give it to someone else from day 1.

It'll be interesting to see how long they hold on to it as a VR technology. Especially considering their complete disinterest in 3D support. Guess it'll depend how much it costs them, how much work they actually have to do and how much good PR they can get out of it.

With regards to pushing the industry forward, remember how Nvidia did GSync and then AMD came up with Freesync like they were reacting to GSync? Bit like MS coming up with DX12 like a reaction to Mantle.
And ShadowPlay, which was not all that shortly followed by AMD's Gaming Evolved app.
Also, Nvidia's DSR, which now has a similar counterpart in AMD drivers.

Nvidia make things proprietary, but I do think they push things forward, even if it's just by prompting others to do their own version.

 

[Ian Evey]

Really, as pointed out to you, Mantle is now called Khronos, I said from the start AMD would make it an open standard by handing it off to a group like Khronos if not Khronos themselves. It's how the industry moves forward, proprietary crap dies. Nvidia don't do 3dvision anymore and AMD gave up early. Devs have zero interest in supporting closed standards, extremely short term benefits if any for the cost of teaching devs to program in such a way that won't be used long term. Open standards get support and move the industry forward, proprietary rubbish doesn't.

GDDR, HBM, all things AMD has spent time and money on that Nvidia gets to use. Yes, a LOT of companies spend time and money helping the industry... just not Nvidia. Intel, Apple, plenty of other companies have put a lot of money into things they've made open standards or open source or technology they have let others use for minimal fees. Everyone but Nvidia realise the concept of pushing the industry forwards, Nvidia is the only one entirely out for themselves.

Surprised amd have the time and money to make competative graphics cards with all this helping!

 

[meldarthx]

Mantle 1.0 is Vulcan and DX12 - so there is no need to continue drivers for mantle as its been turned over. Drivers for DX12 and Vulcan is where they will go......Mantle isn't dead either its morphing into Liquid VR that mantle 2.0.....

Mantle is dead......long live Mantle

 

[drunkenmaster]

It sets an unfortunate precedent (not that its the first) for developers looking at embracing an AMD pushed feature.

Really, it sets an unfortunately precedent? In that AMD bring forth an API and all work towards enabling your engine for it carries over to an industry standard you know will be supported for years to come?

This establishes that working on something AMD is working on will be turned sensibly into a industry standard. If I was a dev working on a feature like API support I would know something Nvidia do that is proprietary will never make it into AMD hardware or gain industry wide support, if AMD make an API or a new good hardware feature you can be significantly more certain it will gain industry wide support as an open standard that ALL users can benefit from in the future and thus be far more confident in spending the time to support it.

All the work done towards Mantle now carries forward to ALL hardware that supports Vulkan... how is that bad for devs? All devs could possibly learn from this situation is that not a single second of working on Mantle will be wasted for future games. It gave them a huge headstart in support for Vulkan and DX12.

 

[flopper]

Mantle 1.0 is Vulcan and DX12 - so there is no need to continue drivers for mantle as its been turned over. Drivers for DX12 and Vulcan is where they will go......Mantle isn't dead either its morphing into Liquid VR that mantle 2.0.....

Mantle is dead......long live Mantle

AMD created a world standard with Mantle used everywhere.
Mission accomplished

 

[D.P.]

Because now somebody else has to do the work but AMD will still take credit for it?
"Vulkan is Mantle, etc.", which I don't believe is exactly the truth, Mantle is just the basis for Vulkan. It was a nice start but needed to be finished off, polished up and have the rough edges removed. I see it a bit like a sketch before the painting, it's basically there but there's also a lot missing that is needed for people to really buy into it.

The thing is, didn't Huddy say in that long chat with PCper that was posted repeatedly that AMD would support this and other APIs and also said that the advantage of Mantle is that they directly control it and so can change it much faster to react to new features of their hardware than if a 3rd party controls it?
Neither of these seem to be the same as "we're going to hand it over to a 3rd party" or anything that suggests they had planned to give it to someone else from day 1.

It'll be interesting to see how long they hold on to it as a VR technology. Especially considering their complete disinterest in 3D support. Guess it'll depend how much it costs them, how much work they actually have to do and how much good PR they can get out of it.

With regards to pushing the industry forward, remember how Nvidia did GSync and then AMD came up with Freesync like they were reacting to GSync? Bit like MS coming up with DX12 like a reaction to Mantle.
And ShadowPlay, which was not all that shortly followed by AMD's Gaming Evolved app.
Also, Nvidia's DSR, which now has a similar counterpart in AMD drivers.

Nvidia make things proprietary, but I do think they push things forward, even if it's just by prompting others to do their own version.

Nvidia radically changed the gaming landscape when they introduced the worlds first consumer level hardware accelerated transform and lighting in Geforce 256, other players either had to play catch up or were eradicated (3DFX).

Still, nothing like a good baseless nvidia bashing when thee is bad news about your favourite brand.

 

[LambChop]

Mantle 1.0 is Vulcan and DX12 - so there is no need to continue drivers for mantle as its been turned over. Drivers for DX12 and Vulcan is where they will go......Mantle isn't dead either its morphing into Liquid VR that mantle 2.0.....

Mantle is dead......long live Mantle

Mantle is DX12, good god, I actually think you believe that ****e.

Mantle is Vulcan is another good one, yeah there may be a little there but its hardly the same thing.

My Golf is the basis for a Veyron SS, its not a ****ing Veyron SS though, is it.

 

[D.P.]

Mantle 1.0 is Vulcan and DX12 - so there is no need to continue drivers for mantle as its been turned over. Drivers for DX12 and Vulcan is where they will go......Mantle isn't dead either its morphing into Liquid VR that mantle 2.0.....

Mantle is dead......long live Mantle

PSML, Mantle is absolutely not in Volkan or DX12 in a pure form. Amd contributed code and ideas, just like Intel, Nvidia, Apple, SGI, Imagination , Valve, and others.

And your second point contradicts your first. If Vulkan/DX12 really is Mantle then there would be absolutely no need for Liquid VR to use Mantle, it would just use Vulkan and be done.

The fact is Vulkan is not Mantle, it exist long before Mantle came to exist and is a renamed OpenGL Next, which has been on the works pretty much since OGL 3.2. Just look at home many Nvidia extensions existed in OpenGL and how many of them were incorporated into the core OpenGL profile to realize how much Nvidia has contributed to OpenGL and GlNext/Vulkan.

 

[andybird123]

Actually Star Citizen does or was going to support mantle. It's more likely it will have been dropped for DX12 now i would imagine.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support

But it doesn't now and has never had mantle support, so putting it on a list of games that have mantle support is incorrect... Amd said it would have mantle support, but it never did, so no it cant be counted as having had mantle

 

[Kaapstad]

This what is going to happen to Vulcan once DX12 hits the shelves

I know it's true because I saw it in Star Trek !!!!

 

[TheRealDeal]

But it doesn't now and has never had mantle support, so putting it on a list of games that have mantle support is incorrect... Amd said it would have mantle support, but it never did, so no it cant be counted as having had mantle

Chris Roberts himself said they were going to use Mantle so it was not just AMD. Here is a post he wrote himself. I do agree that it's going a bit far to put it on that list. Who knows how far they got with Mantle and if they ever had a build in house running it.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/76653/star-citizen-pc-ps4-and-consoles

 

[JediFragger]

Chris Roberts himself said they were going to use Mantle so it was not just AMD. Here is a post he wrote himself. I do agree that it's going a bit far to put it on that list. Who knows how far they got with Mantle and if they ever had a build in house running it.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/76653/star-citizen-pc-ps4-and-consoles

That was way before Mantle was dumped in favour of DX12. I'd be *very* surprised if they didn't switch their focus to DX12 now...

 

[shankly1985]

PSML, Mantle is absolutely not in Volkan or DX12 in a pure form. Amd contributed code and ideas, just like Intel, Nvidia, Apple, SGI, Imagination , Valve, and others.

And your second point contradicts your first. If Vulkan/DX12 really is Mantle then there would be absolutely no need for Liquid VR to use Mantle, it would just use Vulkan and be done.

The fact is Vulkan is not Mantle, it exist long before Mantle came to exist and is a renamed OpenGL Next, which has been on the works pretty much since OGL 3.2. Just look at home many Nvidia extensions existed in OpenGL and how many of them were incorporated into the core OpenGL profile to realize how much Nvidia has contributed to OpenGL and GlNext/Vulkan.

Do your research.. Mantle is very much Vulkan.. They tuck the best parts from mantle api into the Vulkan API.

"AMD then further went on to reveal that Vulkan had actually absorbed all the best features, hinting at Vulkan being the true progress after Mantle API"
“The cross-vendor Khronos Group has chosen the best and brightest parts of Mantle to serve as the foundation for Vulkan,” said Robert Hallock, the head of global technical marketing at AMD. “Vulkan paves the way for a renaissance in cross-platform and cross-vendor PC games with exceptional performance, image quality and features,” stressed Mr. Hallock"

They is a very good reason why khronos thank amd a lot for the api.. It helped them build Vulkan.