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AMD Halts Optimizations for Mantle API

A lot of us did say Mantle would die very very quickly, ridiculed we were.

Indeed, it was obvious from the very start that hardware specific APIs are best left in the 1990s.
And if you are going to make a hardware specific API you better make sure you have an overwhelming market share so develops have some incentive. And you better be prepared to spend a lot,of resources getting developers accustomed to your API.
 
You think AMD spend a lot of money with Dice/EA for them to create Mantle for AMD just so that it helped MS push DX12 in the right direction ?

I'm sorry but no company spends time and money just to help someone else.

Really, as pointed out to you, Mantle is now called Khronos, I said from the start AMD would make it an open standard by handing it off to a group like Khronos if not Khronos themselves. It's how the industry moves forward, proprietary crap dies. Nvidia don't do 3dvision anymore and AMD gave up early. Devs have zero interest in supporting closed standards, extremely short term benefits if any for the cost of teaching devs to program in such a way that won't be used long term. Open standards get support and move the industry forward, proprietary rubbish doesn't.

GDDR, HBM, all things AMD has spent time and money on that Nvidia gets to use. Yes, a LOT of companies spend time and money helping the industry... just not Nvidia. Intel, Apple, plenty of other companies have put a lot of money into things they've made open standards or open source or technology they have let others use for minimal fees. Everyone but Nvidia realise the concept of pushing the industry forwards, Nvidia is the only one entirely out for themselves.
 
You think AMD spend a lot of money with Dice/EA for them to create Mantle for AMD just so that it helped MS push DX12 in the right direction ?

I'm sorry but no company spends time and money just to help someone else.

It does when that company will benefit also. AMD can now create future drivers the way they want to by accessing the hardware more effectively.

Probably find they need less programmers and cut jobs therefore save money. ;)
 
As I stated, Mantle continues to live and be developed ... LiquidVR is Mantle .. and it's also the main reason why devs moved to AMD from NVIDIA for VR. GW-VR is just some (slow, high latency) library extensions for DX & OGL.

It is not dead.
 
It does when that company will benefit also. AMD can now create future drivers the way they want to by accessing the hardware more effectively.

Probably find they need less programmers and cut jobs therefore save money. ;)

And they could have done that without Mantle.
OpengL next was already being worked on long befor Mantle was ever announced with the same goals. Microsoft,nvidia , Intel and ATI were discussing DX12 like command buffering and hardware access back in 2005. Nvidia, AMD, and Microsoft were all well accustomed to The performance gains of API that are more appropriate for modern hardware th lower level access from their console work. PC draw all performance has been a complaint from developers since the 1990s. Microsoft were going to make DX12 regardless of Manlte for the xbox and PC.
 
Really, as pointed out to you, Mantle is now called Khronos, I said from the start AMD would make it an open standard by handing it off to a group like Khronos if not Khronos themselves. It's how the industry moves forward, proprietary crap dies. Nvidia don't do 3dvision anymore and AMD gave up early. Devs have zero interest in supporting closed standards, extremely short term benefits if any for the cost of teaching devs to program in such a way that won't be used long term. Open standards get support and move the industry forward, proprietary rubbish doesn't.

GDDR, HBM, all things AMD has spent time and money on that Nvidia gets to use. Yes, a LOT of companies spend time and money helping the industry... just not Nvidia. Intel, Apple, plenty of other companies have put a lot of money into things they've made open standards or open source or technology they have let others use for minimal fees. Everyone but Nvidia realise the concept of pushing the industry forwards, Nvidia is the only one entirely out for themselves.

Actually, that isn't what you said, you said khronos were in no fit state to take on mantle, you also said mantle would reach a full release with public sdk's

I haven't seen anyone ask what level of control this apparently theoretical SDK will have. These are two entirely separate matters. The SDK AMD will release will be made and controlled by AMD, there is as yet no question of this, I've seen no one question it. Later on at some stage AMD may choose to pass this off to a third party to control, if they do or not we won't know till they do it. We have every reason to believe they will based off a history of doing such things that hurt them but help the industry(gddr of many types, lots of other small things that end up in DX, HSA).

In terms of who it gets handed off to, it doesn't have to be EA/Dice OR Khronos, OR MS, but no other options.

Historically when something like the HSA foundation gets passed off companies nominate someone internally to be their voice in such a foundation. Sometimes these people would say stay AMD employee, have lots of other responsibilities at the company and the foundation and being their spokes person for it is just part of their job. Sometimes someone will leave said company for a foundation but have their best interests in mind. Sometimes groups of companies will nominate/vote for who gets to be on the board/control. There are loads of ways it could be sorted out and speculating now is frankly silly. The most likely situation is that Khronos is FAR too problematic to get them to add Mantle to what they control. I would say most likely a new group with some AMD, some Nvidia, some Intel(and I suspect they would be a less interested, involved but less interested) guys, some industry guys, some big names, maybe a Carmack, or Gabe, both, neither.

It's basically silly to speculate. By the time Mantle is ready, there may be a better solution, Nvidia may talk to AMD/Intel/some game dev's and say they want a new API , akin to openGL control structure but they refuse it to be Mantle, and a group start something new from the ground up.

They'll release a public SDK, because it's insane not to. They've said they will, the dev's involve expect them to and fundamentally, it's illogical to prevent more dev's being involved. If the end goal was to refuse to bring dev's on board, then every penny being spent on Mantle is a complete waste.

As and when FUTURE SDK releases happen, and under whose control is questionable. When these things happen such api's would usually be pushed into a working state before being handed off. expect a beta sdk, then a final sdk(their early tentative dates were around april/november for beta/final, which I would expect 2-3 months later on each), then IF it gets handed off, expect it to happen sometime after a final SDK is released.
 
Everyone but Nvidia realise the concept of pushing the industry forwards, Nvidia is the only one entirely out for themselves.

Which is of course utter rubbish.
Nvidia have been a huge supporter of OpenGL, where as AMD barely touched and their Linux drivers are joke for the last 20 years.
 
There is no need for mantle any more, we got DX 12 and vulkan now, which does more or less what mantle did, there would be zero reason for game developers (outside of sponsorship) to implement mantle when they have dx 12 to use which would benefit both gpu brands....

No-one wanted to use it, it was in about 4 games if that, and in those games it really didnt need to be there either.

Of the top of my head, these games have mantle

battlefield 4
plants vs zombies
thief
sniper elite 3
battlefield hardline
dragon age Inquisition
Civilization: Beyond Earth
Star Citizen

And I am seeing rumours that the following games will get mantle, although take with a pinch of salt:

Need For Speed: Rivals
mirrors edge catalyst
star wars battlefront
plants vs zombies 2
 
Im not surprised, i said it right at the start when they brought Mantle, they wouldn't support it for long, as they'll do what they always do, just bin it off and move onto something else. :p
 
There is no need for mantle any more, we got DX 12 and vulkan now, which does more or less what mantle did, there would be zero reason for game developers (outside of sponsorship) to implement mantle when they have dx 12 to use which would benefit both gpu brands....



Of the top of my head, these games have mantle

battlefield 4
plants vs zombies
thief
sniper elite 3
battlefield hardline
dragon age Inquisition
Civilization: Beyond Earth
Star Citizen

And I am seeing rumours that the following games will get mantle, although take with a pinch of salt:

Need For Speed: Rivals
mirrors edge catalyst
star wars battlefront
plants vs zombies 2

Star citizen does not have mantle
 
Mantle did what it was supposed to do. Yes it's a shame that we don't get it's benefits in BF4 and allready released tittles for new cards. But it would be stupid from AMD to waste resources for 4 API's (Mantle, DX11, DX12, Vulkan).
 
^^

Exactly.

Star citizen does not have mantle

Ah, it is listed under a few sites as having mantle. Still though, more than just 4 games.....

Also, iirc some recent resident evil game had or was suppose to get mantle, I remember matt posting a dedicated thread/post about it on here a while ago.

And afaic, that is a good amount of mantle games, how many DX 11 games did we see in the first year?
 
Has anyone heard much about this OpenGL successor, what do you think?

Yeah Khronos have been touting it for a couple of years now, OpenGL Vulkan (formerly OpenGl Next) it's basically a successor to OpenGL 4.x but it's low level like Mantle/D3D12 and help has been put in by AMD/Nvidia/Intel/others so it looks like it will be a decent option for Linux/OSX users.
 
^^

Exactly.



Ah, it is listed under a few sites as having mantle. Still though, more than just 4 games.....

Also, iirc some recent resident evil game had or was suppose to get mantle, I remember matt posting a dedicated thread/post about it on here a while ago.

And afaic, that is a good amount of mantle games, how many DX 11 games did we see in the first year?

I think it is safe to assume that any games that were rumoured to be getting mantle now won't be, as and aren't releasing any more drivers for mantle
 
Games that was getting Mantle I expect them to get OpenGL and SteamOS support etc...

2016 I can see steamOS doing very well! It will be great for a theater room PC, Great API to back it and games..
 
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