AMD RDNA 2 potential longevity concerns?

[Orcvader]

Intel's XeSS is probably going to be the deciding factor, if it really works well on GPUs with no AI cores, and if it's easy to implement, as well as if Intel can convince developers to integrate it.

A lot of games still don't have RT so AMD will be relevant for a good while, and I'm hoping the current gen consoles will push newer game engines to allow RT to run better on RDNA2.

 

[Uriel]

Honestly, I think RDNA 2 will last as long as this console generation. Games where better ray tracing performance is properly taken advantage of on PC will be few and far between.

 

[JediFragger]

Honestly, I think RDNA 2 will last as long as this console generation.

Agreed. A higher-end RDNA2 buyer has nothing to be concerned about in regards to longevity imo (unless you're an RTX fanboi, in which case you bought the wrong gpu sucka! )

 

[SKILL]

I'd imagine both RTX 3000 series and RDNA2 probably have similar realistic lifespans, and probably not that much different from previous generations of GPUs.

Sure RT on RDNA2 isn't amazing, but by the time that becomes a real issue so will 8/10Gb VRAM, or the fact that even the 3000 series aren't really that great at RT when it boils down to it.

Add on the GPU market as it is today/has been over the past year, with lack of availability and utterly lolworthy pricing it's no surprise 1060 is still the king of the Steam surveys and I can't see that doing anything other than holding back game development.

 

[greatash]

RT is not great on the 3000 series either so I wouldn't count that as a longevity factor. In one or two gens when RT is being used properly and the next cards have 2-3x the RT performance you wont want to use RT on a 3000 series card.

 

[Joxeon]

There will always be limitations and settings that need turning down no matter which card you buy, nvidias is VRAM and AMDs is RT but I doubt either will have the raster performance in a couple of years time and we've seen that with all the top cards that have been released over time as games grow more demanding.

 

[Nexus18]

Seems an appropriate time to bump this thread:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/dying-light-2-pc-tech-review.18947028/

 

[Grim5]

If I had an AMD GPU right now (just my personal opinion), I'd put the game on my watchlist but not play it until I can get a GPU with better RT performance - its a sin to play this without having RT on, its a game changer

 

[sparkymark75]

nVidia marketing force out in droves today

Maybe the pics didn’t do it justice but it didn’t exactly look like it would impact the experience playing it with RT off. You can’t play the game with RT on half the screen and off on the other half so are most people going to even notice.

 

[shankly1985]

O some users

Since when has graphics even been the sole reason to PLAY a game? Like honestly how did we ever manage to reach this point in gaming if the graphics are the only reason to PLAY?

Think before you post

Am very sure us with the RT performance will still enjoy the game as much as the next person along playing on console or playing with a RTX card.

God dam just enjoy the game tomorrow night I know I will be 4 player co-op with cold cronavirus in the fridge.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Most people are still on non-RT dGPUs. Anyone on an RDNA2 dGPU or an Ampere based dGPU is in a minority of PC owners.

The most represented RT capable dGPU in the top10 is an RTX2060. There are more GTX1060 owners than RTX2060 and RTX2070 Super owners combined. There are more RTX2060/RTX2070/RTX2070 Super owners owners than RTX3060/RTX3060TI/RTX3070/RTX3080 owners combined and the RTX3080 is way down the list. There are nearly 26 million PS5/XBox sales so far. That is a huge number of people still on 1st generation/lower level RT capable systems(if the system can do RT).

Now look at performance.

Most of the Turing range is barely better than RDNA2 even in Cyberpunk 2077 which favours Nvidia dGPUs. Only the RTX2080TI holds it own with Ampere.

That pretty much means a huge chunk of people owning RT capable systems,will be having issues with RT performance,just not RDNA2 dGPU and console owners.

 

[Grim5]

Most people are still on non-RT dGPUs. Anyone on an RDNA2 dGPU or an Ampere based dGPU is in a minority of PC owners. The most represented RT capable dGPU in the top10 is an RTX2060. There are more GTX1060 owners than RTX2060 and RTX2070 Super owners combined. There are more RTX2060/RTX2070/RTX2070 Super owners owners than RTX3060/RTX3060TI/RTX3070/RTX3080 owners combined and the RTX3080 is way down the list. There are nearly 26 million PS5/XBox sales so far.

For reference each 1% on steam represents 2 million PCs. So 2060, 2070(s), 3070, 3060 and 3060ti all combined represents about 30 million PCs.

And the performance is just the reality, the 26 million consoles have to get by with 1080p 30fps, and that's with several RT effects not available on the consoles

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For reference each 1% on steam represents 2 million PCs. So 2060, 2070(s), 3070, 3060 and 3060ti all combined represents about 30 million PCs.

And the performance is just the reality, the 26 million consoles have to get by with 1080p 30fps, and that's with several RT effects not available on the consoles

The issue with all these discussions seems to ignore the GPU apocalypse which has meant the 6 year old GTX1060 is still at the top of the list,and it hasn't been made for years now.

In the top list of dGPUs,the non-RT capable dGPUs are at 39% of the userbase,which is nearly twice that of the RT capable dGPUs in the top list(20%). So it doesn't matter if the consoles suck at RT,because those 39% of non-RT capable dGPU suck even more,as do the vast majority of the dGPUs listed on Steam. Now if you go down the list further,it's most likely the figures get skewed in favour of non-RT capable dGPUs even more.

So 2/3 are not on RT capable dGPUs in the top 20 on Steam. Of that 20% of RT capable dGPUs,nearly 55% are made up of Turing dGPUs.

As indicated by the figures in Cyberpunk 2077,which likes Nvidia dGPUs,the RDNA2 GPUs are broadly similar to Turing dGPUs upto the RTX2080/RTX2080 Super in RT performance.

The RX6900XT is about RTX2080 Super performance in RT in Cyberpunk 2077. An RX6700XT is about RTX2060 Super/RTX2070 level RT performance.

So taking consoles into consideration,using your own 30 million number for RT capable PCs(and the recent update now says 30 million consoles),that is at least 60 million RT capable systems.

However,of that number that is around 46 million RT capable systems which this forum denotes as having subpar RT performance,because they are no better or worse than an RX6900XT,which also means almost all of the Turing range. But out of those Ampere users,a few are on an RTX3060 which doesn't have very great RT performance either,and in the realm of RDNA 2 dGPUs too. So that is easily over 50 millon out of those systems with subpar RT performance.

So going by that the VAST majority of PC gamers and console gamers today have a WORSE performing dGPU than my RTX3060TI when it comes to RT performance.

My RTX3060TI RT performance is much better than my mates RX6600XT,but still I need to use DLSS to get playable performance with reflections on in Cyberpunk 2077. This means in another year or so I expect,if I really want to keep using RT on in any reasonable way,I will have to buy an RTX4060TI.

It's frankly struggling today in native RT performance. RDNA2 and Turing owners struggle even more,but at this point its like comparing a Lada and a Trabant. One is technically much better,but not for much longer IMHO!

But many here upgrade every generation,so its going to be a moot discussion isn't it?!

Plus the number of gaming systems with non-RT capable dGPUs still swamps those with RT. The reality is the dGPU issues have meant many have just stayed with older designs. Its not normal for a 6 year old dGPU such as the GTX1060 to be number one.

 

[shankly1985]

Very strong points @CAT-THE-FIFTH

 

[CuriousTomCat]

The PS5 and Xbox uses RDNA2. So most studios will be still designing games based on RDNA2 in 7 or 8 years.

 

[sparkymark75]

The issue with all these discussions seems to ignore the GPU apocalypse which has meant the 6 year old GTX1060 is still at the top of the list,and it hasn't been made for years now.

In the top list of dGPUs,the non-RT capable dGPUs are at 39% of the userbase,which is nearly twice that of the RT capable dGPUs in the top list(20%). So it doesn't matter if the consoles suck at RT,because those 39% of non-RT capable dGPU suck even more,as do the vast majority of the dGPUs listed on Steam. Now if you go down the list further,it's most likely the figures get skewed in favour of non-RT capable dGPUs even more.

So 2/3 are not on RT capable dGPUs in the top 20 on Steam. Of that 20% of RT capable dGPUs,nearly 55% are made up of Turing dGPUs.

As indicated by the figures in Cyberpunk 2077,which likes Nvidia dGPUs,the RDNA2 GPUs are broadly similar to Turing dGPUs upto the RTX2080/RTX2080 Super in RT performance.

The RX6900XT is about RTX2080 Super performance in RT in Cyberpunk 2077. An RX6700XT is about RTX2060 Super/RTX2070 level RT performance.

So taking consoles into consideration,using your own 30 million number for RT capable PCs(and the recent update now says 30 million consoles),that is at least 60 million RT capable systems.

However,of that number that is around 46 million RT capable systems which this forum denotes as having subpar RT performance,because they are no better or worse than an RX6900XT,which also means almost all of the Turing range. But out of those Ampere users,a few are on an RTX3060 which doesn't have very great RT performance either,and in the realm of RDNA 2 dGPUs too. So that is easily over 50 millon out of those systems with subpar RT performance.

So going by that the VAST majority of PC gamers and console gamers today have a WORSE performing dGPU than my RTX3060TI when it comes to RT performance.

My RTX3060TI RT performance is much better than my mates RX6600XT,but still I need to use DLSS to get playable performance with reflections on in Cyberpunk 2077. This means in another year or so I expect,if I really want to keep using RT on in any reasonable way,I will have to buy an RTX4060TI.

It's frankly struggling today in native RT performance. RDNA2 and Turing owners struggle even more,but at this point its like comparing a Lada and a Trabant. One is technically much better,but not for much longer IMHO!

But many here upgrade every generation,so its going to be a moot discussion isn't it?!

Plus the number of gaming systems with non-RT capable dGPUs still swamps those with RT. The reality is the dGPU issues have meant many have just stayed with older designs. Its not normal for a 6 year old dGPU such as the GTX1060 to be number one.

So in summary, despite what the nVidia fans will have you believe. You can still enjoy a game without RT. It’s eye candy.

 

[Grim5]

So in summary, despite what the nVidia fans will have you believe. You can still enjoy a game without RT. It’s eye candy.

you can even play games without a GPU, despite the several hundred page thread from OCUK forum users that will have you belive otherwise, shock!

 

[montymint]

Right now I have no worries with my 6900XT.

Plays everything I like to play with all the settings turned up nicely.

RT for me doesn't as much as HDR has done, but in the years to come this will probably change as it becomes more refined. Then I'll see what card will do that for me the best.

 

[Zarax]

Personally, VRAM>RT.
My wife still manages to play with an HD7970 (HZD requires FSR at 1080p but she enjoys it) and I'm an happy camper at 1080p/1440p on older games with my RX590.

Of course I would prefer to have something newer but not at twice the price of what I paid for my previous setup.
In 2013 1500€ was enough for a top tier gaming PC, I don't want to spend 3k for an i7 level (or AMD equivalent) so I'm stuck with the longest running PC I ever had and will probably reach 10 years with it.

 

[Nexus18]

I think some have missed the point of this thread given all the posts/threads surrounding "vram issues/longevity" and "amd finewine longevity"

So I guess we can safely say that vram is a complete non issue now then as well?

But I somewhat digress... isn't this why we buy top end gpus and the best displays etc. i.e. to get the best performance AND visuals we can?

Since when has graphics even been the sole reason to PLAY a game? Like honestly how did we ever manage to reach this point in gaming if the graphics are the only reason to PLAY?

As per my point above, given that you have people spending up to £2-4k on a pc and £500/1k+ on displays etc., I would argue graphics and getting the best performance is pretty important....

I'm a sucker for eye candy now and for me RT is truly the next big advancement in visuals, is it the be all and the only reason to play games? Of course not, I happily played CP2077 on my vega 56 but getting to experience the game with RT just made it so much more immersive and appealing/enjoyable, much like how I couldn't get into metro exodus when it first released, however, the enhanced version I was enjoying far more because of what RT did to improve the overall look and feel of the game.