AMD RDNA 2 potential longevity concerns?

[Nexus18]

Not sure a video from 18 months and 30 driver sets ago is quite valid?

As said, hard to find many comparisons.

However, if you have a look at recent games, it seems to show a similar finding, which surprises me as I thought RDNA 2 was better than turing for RT but seems not, even a 3070 doesn't seem much better than the 2080ti in DL 2 here (which is unusual)

Are we still going on about RT in the first gen AMD ray tracing cards? oh lord. If anyone bought any of these for RT, in my opinion, they're an idiot. They are AT LEAST a generation behind Nvidia for that, and only worth buying for conventional graphics.

For raster they are awesome which is where they shine. Can we move on now?

Personally I always find that a poor excuse/reason, ok, it's amds first gen but are people going to pass up on that just because amd aren't there yet... Same way AMD customers are still waiting on a proper competitor to DLSS.... How long do people have to wait to get a similar experience to the competitor? This was one thing that did infuriate me when I had my amd gpus, recent ones being 290, vega 56, it always felt like you had to wait 1+ year to get something nvidia had/have or did better, 1 year is a long time in the pc gaming market, I'm at a point now where I want it now and not at some point "potentially" down the line....

But yes, I agree with the rest of your post although it kind of misses the point of the OP/thread.

I'm just curious why FSR 1 is providing not as much of a performance uplift compared to dlss in RT scenarios and it makes RT perf. of RDNA 2 even worse than we originally thought given amd can't use DLSS.

Probably methodologies , as FSR is performed after the rendering pipeline whilst DLSS isnt. I have emailed Ian Cutress to try and find out if AMD are going to use DirectML in the future.....

I guess when FSR 2 lands, it might be a bit better (using similar somewhat similar approach i.e. based on TAAU or TSR) but does seem that perhaps the tensor cores are helping here?

If you care about RT, and some people do, fair enough, its not a bad point to make, RT on RDNA2 is not much if any better than Turning cards.

But some people do it because its the only argument they have, they don't have rasterization performance, they certainly don't have performance per watt, so RT becomes vastly over stated in argument.

Nvidia know any metric that anyone can use to say "this is why Nvidia better" will keep their market share and sales up even if the GPU's cost a lot more than the competition.

So, with that in mind just sit back and watch the insane lengths Jenson will go to to say ahead with the next generation, its going to be a calamity of laughs, its going to be helarious, so just get the popcorn and enjoy it.

Interesting point that, no doubt for rasterization and stock, RDNA 2 is king, even when both are undervolted, I think RDNA 2 comes out slightly ahead, however, in RT scenarios, ampere demolishes RDNA 2 for performance per watt i.e. in matts video of his 6900xt compared to my 3080 in doom eternal (which is very light on RT), our fps is similar or mine is higher depending on the scene yet he's pulling 100+w more than my 3080.

2070S, overclocked to reference 2080S performance levels, RT is utter junk in almost everything, i only use it in FC6 because it only works at a reasonable performance in FC6, because apparently FC6 doesn't use proper RT

FC 6 RT is "ok", on the same level as guardians of the galaxy, resident evil village, doom eternal RT implementations. It's nothing to write home about when compared to the likes of cp2077, control, the ascent, metro ee, dl 2, chernobylite etc. RT.

 

[humbug]

Interesting point that, no doubt for rasterization and stock, RDNA 2 is king, even when both are undervolted, I think RDNA 2 comes out slightly ahead, however, in RT scenarios, ampere demolishes RDNA 2 for performance per watt i.e. in matts video of his 6900xt compared to my 3080 in doom eternal (which is very light on RT), our fps is similar or mine is higher depending on the scene yet he's pulling 100+w more than my 3080.

Of course it is, when your frame rates are much lower with RT it doesn't matter that the other guys GPU is using a lot more power, you may still come out on top if you're using that as a metric for performance per watt.

PS: Control looks like its from 2006.

 

[Harlequin]

Metro EE was paid for by Nv as a tech demo; CP2077 is a meh game (imo) anyway, control is a tech demo , DL2 has been out about 6 weeks (not my kind of game if im honest); hadnt heard of chernobylite , reviews say its an average at best indie game.

 

[Wrinkly]

AMD should listen to their customers and produce a range of RDNA3 cards without RT support. I wonder how well they would sell

 

[Scougar]

Personally I always find that a poor excuse/reason, ok, it's amds first gen but are people going to pass up on that just because amd aren't there yet...

Why? It's clear it sucks. It's not going to magically get better. Except it and move on. If people want RT right now, by an Nvidia 3xxx series, not a 2xxx or an AMD card.

The entire OP is based on 'will RT hold up'. And that's MY point, it's a pointless thread because we already know it won't. Just like with the Nvidia 2xxx series. It's already done for (with RT).

 

[ASMB]

The 3000 series doesn't even hold up in some heavy ray tracing games without dlss, it will be interesting how many people sell their 3000 card to get 4000 series for better ray tracing. Neither AMD or Nvidia knocked ray tracing out of the park this generation of card, https://youtu.be/RxaLjSw4-wM?t=1446

3080ti flatlines in Cyberpunk 8k ray tracing lol, https://youtu.be/RxaLjSw4-wM?t=1904

 

[Wrinkly]

The 3000 series doesn't even hold up in some heavy ray tracing games without dlss, it will be interesting how many people sell their 3000 card to get 4000 series for better ray tracing. Neither AMD or Nvidia knocked ray tracing out of the park this generation of card, https://youtu.be/RxaLjSw4-wM?t=1446

True, although RDNA2, even with the node advantage, only has ~50% of Ampere's RT performance. Thankfully DLSS is very good, so good that I use it when not required. I'm looking forward to the 4080 for more RT performance, my 3080 will probably end up on the shelf beside the 1080Ti, 980Ti, R290 and HD7950.

 

[Calin Banc]

PS: Control looks like its from 2006.

Can you name a few games that looked like that, back in 2006?

 

[sparkymark75]

True, although RDNA2, even with the node advantage, only has ~50% of Ampere's RT performance. Thankfully DLSS is very good, so good that I use it when not required. I'm looking forward to the 4080 for more RT performance, my 3080 will probably end up on the shelf beside the 1080Ti, 980Ti, R290 and HD7950.

So if the AMD equivalent had better RT performance but worse raster performance, would you still buy the 4080?

 

[BigBANGtheory]

The 3000 series doesn't even hold up in some heavy ray tracing games without dlss, it will be interesting how many people sell their 3000 card to get 4000 series for better ray tracing. Neither AMD or Nvidia knocked ray tracing out of the park this generation of card, https://youtu.be/RxaLjSw4-wM?t=1446

as a 3080 owner myself I can tell you as of this point I am 100% more interested in Navi 31 than the 4080, for me raster performance is by far more important to me than RT.

 

[Alt0153]

as a 3080 owner myself I can tell you as of this point I am 100% more interested in Navi 31 than the 4080, for me raster performance is by far more important to me than RT.

dlss is more important to me than rt

 

[Wrinkly]

So if the AMD equivalent had better RT performance but worse raster performance, would you still buy the 4080?

Who ever has the best RT performance will get my cash, AMD, Intel, Nvidia or even Huawei if they care to enter the market. DLSS at the moment would tip the scale in favour of Nvidia.

 

[Rroff]

I thought RDNA 2 was better than turing for RT but seems not

For pure RT workloads RDNA2 is about the same as Turing - not new information.

 

[Scougar]

The 3000 series doesn't even hold up in some heavy ray tracing games without dlss, it will be interesting how many people sell their 3000 card to get 4000 series for better ray tracing. Neither AMD or Nvidia knocked ray tracing out of the park this generation of card, https://youtu.be/RxaLjSw4-wM?t=1446

And that's the thing. Until we get to an 'acceptable level' with RT, each generation is likely to make the previous utterly obsolete for RT. If people are buying RT, they had also expect that they are basically buying into a very fast moving tech. This isn't like raster smaller gains per gen IMO.

 

[Tetras]

And that's the thing. Until we get to an 'acceptable level' with RT, each generation is likely to make the previous utterly obsolete for RT. If people are buying RT, they had also expect that they are basically buying into a very fast moving tech. This isn't like raster smaller gains per gen IMO.

Would that also suggest it has some room to be optimised, to use the hardware better? I could see newer RT-focused games having a "bad RT" setting where it is worse than how games look now, but makes it playable.

 

[Scougar]

Would that also suggest it has some room to be optimised, to use the hardware better? I could see newer RT-focused games having a "bad RT" setting where it is worse than how games look now, but makes it playable.

I somewhat think we will see almost fully RT only cards sometime soon. Or perhaps two separate chips on a card. I guess like Hardware Transform and lighting, most devs need to be on board. Likely to be driven by consoles though, and with and in control there... That might be a while.

Not sure optimised, but I certainly think a tech breakthrough is needed to make it truly viable.