AMD RX 480 Fails PCI-E Specification

Overlag · 5 Jul 2016 at 10:36

sqwerty said:
Nah, it's not really until you start OC'ing them and/or pushing unrealistic workloads (cough 4k Ultra Metro cough) that they are showing over spec.

Besides many are finding them to not only sup less juice undervolted but actually perform better whilst running quieter...http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-undervolting-performance_183699

not everyone can undervolt though, mine cant for instance.

mark42 · 5 Jul 2016 at 11:28

Meaker said:
They can't balance the power draw on this card via software.

Sure they can. They have a 6 phase power controller for vcore with half the phases drawing power from the slot, the other half from the 6-pin. The power controller (IR3567B) has programmable phase current adjustments.

The pci-e and 6 pin are not physically linked.

They can't be directly connected. That's prohibited by the PCIe specs.

Meaker · 5 Jul 2016 at 11:44

mark42 said:
Sure they can. They have a 6 phase power controller for vcore with half the phases drawing power from the slot, the other half from the 6-pin. The power controller (IR3567B) has programmable phase current adjustments.

They can't be directly connected. That's prohibited by the PCIe specs.

In that case never mind

Rroff · 5 Jul 2016 at 12:30

Angilion said:
Not if it's tested for compliance with the power draw through the PCI-E slot. So presumably it wasn't. Or an engineering sample was and that sample differed from the retail cards. All that would be required would be to use a different BIOS that power throttles the card even more. You could get the power draw down to almost anything you want that way.

Oddly, it seems that PCI-SIG aren't very concerned about compliance with the power draw limits in the PCI-E standards anyway.

It could merely be a configuration slip up between qualification and final versions - what isn't clear is how easy it is to rectify - whether they can simply poke some commands to the IR3567B and its sorted or whether its only possible by hooking up external hardware.

Rroff · 5 Jul 2016 at 12:55

I was off a little with my calculation earlier btw - ~5.5 amp is the max with the strictest temperature target - within acceptable temperature ranges it can go upto 7-8 amps with normal thickness traces which puts the card at the upper limit but still OK aslong as you operating within a "normal" environment - leaves little margin for less ideal environments though or boards that aren't specced to handle the power of 2 of the cards.

Boards that are in Gigabyte's ultra durable range for instance theoretically can handle more like 3x that.

Yrkoon · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:03

what time can we expect the fix?

N19h7m4r3 · 5 Jul 2016 at 14:58

Tom's Hardware re-examines the RX 480 power issue

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-480-power-measurements,4622-2.html

The AMD Radeon RX 480’s power supply configuration exceeds the limit defined by the PCI-SIG’s specifications. It doesn’t exceed them by a massive amount, but it does do so reliably. Norms should be respected, especially if they already have a very generous built-in tolerance range. We never implied in our launch article that a system made up of solid components might be directly damaged by an AMD Radeon RX 480 graphics card running at stock clock frequencies.

There shouldn’t be any problems unless cheap, dirty or outdated components are used, the card isn’t installed correctly, or the amount of power drawn is increased by overclocking the card.

southernorth · 5 Jul 2016 at 17:18

Anyone know what time today that AMD will release their statement?

Catanonia · 5 Jul 2016 at 17:38

southernorth said:
Anyone know what time today that AMD will release their statement?

I strongly suspect everyone is going to be extremely disappointed when their cards are throttled to hell to avoid law suites.

sqwerty · 5 Jul 2016 at 19:37

Is it just me or does this bit at the end of the latest Toms article sound sarcastic as ****

"We’re very excited to see how AMD will fix the problems using just a new driver, and without a firmware update, as the company has indicated."

*Pictures Igor with evil laugh rubbing his hands together

harney · 5 Jul 2016 at 19:53

sqwerty said:
Is it just me or does this bit at the end of the latest Toms article sound sarcastic as ****

"We’re very excited to see how AMD will fix the problems using just a new driver, and without a firmware update, as the company has indicated."

*Pictures Igor with evil laugh rubbing his hands together

Yes i think TH have had a bit of flac from AMD re this there 1st findings hence the dig at the end

and this fill 2nd one is like a cover there arses kind of thing ...but at the end of the day its the truth and its what we as the consumers must be given to make a choice on what to purchase ..

So good on TH for doing that along with the others ....

southernorth · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:02

Just been on the AMD subreddit, it seems somewhat laughable how much they downplay the power issues, as if it is literally a non-issue and a big conspiracy against AMD. It's as if any sensible discussion is immediately quashed and treated as idiocy.

harney · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:05

southernorth said:
Just been on the AMD subreddit, it seems somewhat laughable how much they downplay the power issues, as if it is literally a non-issue and a big conspiracy against AMD. It's as if any sensible discussion is immediately quashed and treated as idiocy.

That's because its turned into this fan boy crap which for me i find very childish...Its no conspiracy against AMD its fact and there in black and white re the findings

Its a serious matter and needs to be delt with and AMD are well where still waiting but should be fixed shortly ....

southernorth · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:07

harney said:
That's because its turned into this fan boy crap which for me i find very childish...Its no conspiracy against AMD its fact and there in black and white re the findings

Its a serious matter and needs to be delt with and AMD are well where still waiting but should be fixed shortly ....

Yeah, they need to start being really transparent about why this exactly became the issue it did, instead of hiding behind defenses such as it only affects a small % of cards, or that the user themselves must be causing the issue.

Joe_Easy · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:25

southernorth said:
Yeah, they need to start being really transparent about why this exactly became the issue it did, instead of hiding behind defenses such as it only affects a small % of cards, or that the user themselves must be causing the issue.

I can't see the issue here....let's see...

Electrical Engineers

Well written post with sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4rbw8p/facts_about_pcie_connectors/

The expense of a motherboard has almost no bearing on whether or not it is "safe" to use a reference rx480 with it. If the contacts are clean and the card is seated properly, any board with a x16 slot should be fine with rx 48

Gibbo from OCUK states that it's not an issue. Who I should think knows a bit more about MBs, video cards, power limits and so on then most youtube warriors on the interwebs and on this forum.

People are rushing to condemn AMD over an issue that not even 1 person on this board has experienced...and I understand you'd be hard pressed to find a definitive example anywhere.

Smells like a hack job to me and it's a disgrace to be honest. Can't believe how quick people are to get the pitchforks and rush to judge.

And no, I'm not an AMD fan boy...I have a 980ti in my rig at the minute

Poneros · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:28

You can tell how much it's zealous Nvidia kool-aid drinker and how much it's a serious issue based on how many of these complain about this same thing with the 960. I bet if you look at their history it's 0. But it's okay, there is no bias.

Boomstick777 · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:32

Poneros said:
You can tell how much it's zealous Nvidia kool-aid drinker and how much it's a serious issue based on how many of these complain about this same thing with the 960. I bet if you look at their history it's 0. But it's okay, there is no bias.

Haha so true

southernorth · 5 Jul 2016 at 20:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjAlrGzHAkI#t=28m41s

Shows how massive the differences are between the 480 and the GTX 960, and how the power issues are not that similar at all.

Bonjour · 5 Jul 2016 at 21:05

Would a similar issue affect the 7750? That doesn't even have an additional power source, with all power supplied through the PCIe slot. Glancing at an old review, it pulls around 90 watts at idle and 140 watts under load.

I've had one of those in a box under the TV for years.

N19h7m4r3 · 5 Jul 2016 at 21:20

Bonjour said:
Would a similar issue affect the 7750? That doesn't even have an additional power source, with all power supplied through the PCIe slot. Glancing at an old review, it pulls around 90 watts at idle and 140 watts under load.

I've had one of those in a box under the TV for years.

According to TechpowerUp where they measured only the cards power draw, it peaked at 43W, with an average of 41W.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7750/24.html

For this test we measure power consumption of only the graphics card, via PCI-Express power connector(s) and PCI-Express bus slot. A Keithley Integra 2700 with 6.5 digits is used for all measurements. Again, the values here reflect card only power consumption measured at DC VGA card inputs, not the whole system.

The old 6670 I recently pulled from a cat hair dustbuster PC has a maximum draw of 58W, and it's been running for years in an old Phenom 2 system.