AMD RX 480 Fails PCI-E Specification

[sqwerty]

Would a similar issue affect the 7750? That doesn't even have an additional power source, with all power supplied through the PCIe slot. Glancing at an old review, it pulls around 90 watts at idle and 140 watts under load.

I've had one of those in a box under the TV for years.

"Total System Power"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjAlrGzHAkI#t=28m41s

Shows how massive the differences are between the 480 and the GTX 960, and how the power issues are not that similar at all.

Yeah, below 30w makes sense as it will be powering just 2GB mem system + board with the rest being pulled from the plug as it should.

RX 480 would have required an 8 pin to do that and pass (seemingly questionable) certs, 470 will be fine no doubt.

 

[RavenXXX2]

You can tell how much it's zealous Nvidia kool-aid drinker and how much it's a serious issue based on how many of these complain about this same thing with the 960. I bet if you look at their history it's 0. But it's okay, there is no bias.

Not the same, the 960 won't degrade your mobo over time, the 480 potential will.

 

[Meaker]

Not the same, the 960 won't degrade your mobo over time, the 480 potential will.

When you say degrade which part do you suspect because VRMs and inductors don't tend to degrade. It's only capacitors which tend to do that and they should not be too heavily loaded as far as I can see.

It's more of a case of working or not.

 

[Bonjour]

"Total System Power"

...

Right you are. The card has a TDP of only 55 watts.

 

[Rroff]

When you say degrade which part do you suspect because VRMs and inductors don't tend to degrade. It's only capacitors which tend to do that and they should not be too heavily loaded as far as I can see.

It's more of a case of working or not.

Anything electrical will degrade if you are pulling more current through it than it is designed for. (Assuming over current protection, etc. doesn't kick in).

 

[LoadsaMoney]

No one tested the fix drivers yet?

 

[southernorth]

No one tested the fix drivers yet?

They've been released?

 

[SouthEastBlue]

So still nothing from AMD? Probably means they're still sitting there scratching their asses wondering how to fix an issue that should never have been.

Hoping at least one of the AMD monkeys has enough intelligence to come up with a fix, can't be bothered to send this card back it's a pain.

 

[southernorth]

So still nothing from AMD? Probably means they're still sitting there scratching their asses wondering how to fix an issue that should never have been.

Hoping at least one of the AMD monkeys has enough intelligence to come up with a fix, can't be bothered to send this card back it's a pain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...be_a_beta_tester_for_radeon/d5030wd?context=1

The post from AMD_Robert does not look very promising.

 

[D.P.]

When you say degrade which part do you suspect because VRMs and inductors don't tend to degrade. It's only capacitors which tend to do that and they should not be too heavily loaded as far as I can see.

It's more of a case of working or not.

Copper traces will degrade and literally burn up if too much current is passed.

 

[D.P.]

So still nothing from AMD? Probably means they're still sitting there scratching their asses wondering how to fix an issue that should never have been.

Hoping at least one of the AMD monkeys has enough intelligence to come up with a fix, can't be bothered to send this card back it's a pain.

The trouble is the fix is to reduce the TDP and thus reduce performance.

It may well be a high percentage of chip will run with a lower voltage but they don't know which ones and they would have to recall all sold investment tory and retest.

 

[D.P.]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...be_a_beta_tester_for_radeon/d5030wd?context=1

The post from AMD_Robert does not look very promising.

7pm EST and nothing. Feel sorry for the AMD devs (and their familes) who had to work through the holiday weekend and missed out on independence day celebrations.

 

[harney]

7pm EST and nothing. Feel sorry for the AMD devs (and their familes) who had to work through the holiday weekend and missed out on independence day celebrations.

Yes that is a very good point

 

[Orangey]

I don't think they celebrate the American Independence Day in India.

Or is it China? Wherever they moved to recently.

 

[melmac]

7pm EST and nothing. Feel sorry for the AMD devs (and their familes) who had to work through the holiday weekend and missed out on independence day celebrations.

Do you really think they worked through the holidays? I doubt it, why do you think they said Tuesday? And, they didn't say they would have a driver on Tuesday just an update on their progress.

 

[D.P.]

I don't think they celebrate the American Independence Day in India.

Or is it China? Wherever they moved to recently.

AMD won't have outsourced their driver and bios dev teams.if they have that might explains things. Nvidia's debs are all in sunny Vale, CA.

 

[D.P.]

Do you really think they worked through the holidays? I doubt it, why do you think they said Tuesday? And, they didn't say they would have a driver on Tuesday just an update on their progress.

A messup like this, that means emergency brainstorming and burning the midnight oil. Sleeping in the office. Manger ordering in Pizza and the coffee machine running flat out.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

 

[Angilion]

Anything electrical will degrade if you are pulling more current through it than it is designed for. (Assuming over current protection, etc. doesn't kick in).

That might not be an issue in this case because motherboard manufacturers don't necessarily design for the minimum requirements of the PCI-E spec. It's not difficult or expensive to make a motherboard exceed that particular minimum and it seems that manufacturers usually do.

I find it odd that PCI-SIG defines a standard for maximum power draw from a PCI-E slot and doesn't even test for it in their certification. A card can pull any amount from the PCI-E slot and still pass as long as it functions correctly on their test rig.

 

[fs123]

https://www.facebook.com/AMDGaming/posts/1087005684705251?sf30349571=1

We promised an update today (July 5, 2016) following concerns around the Radeon™ RX 480 drawing excess current from the PCIe bus. Although we are confident that the levels of reported power draws by the Radeon RX 480 do not pose a risk of damage to motherboards or other PC components based on expected usage, we are serious about addressing this topic and allaying outstanding concerns. Towards that end, we assembled a worldwide team this past weekend to investigate and develop a driver update to improve the power draw. We’re pleased to report that this driver—Radeon Software 16.7.1—is now undergoing final testing and will be released to the public in the next 48 hours.

In this driver we’ve implemented a change to address power distribution on the Radeon RX 480 – this change will lower current drawn from the PCIe bus.
Separately, we’ve also included an option to reduce total power with minimal performance impact. Users will find this as the “compatibility” UI toggle in the Global Settings menu of Radeon Settings. This toggle is “off” by default.

Finally, we’ve implemented a collection of performance improvements for the Polaris architecture that yield performance uplifts in popular game titles of up to 3%. These optimizations are designed to improve the performance of the Radeon RX 480, and should substantially offset the performance impact for users who choose to activate the “compatibility” toggle.

AMD is committed to delivering high quality and high performance products, and we’ll continue to provide users with more control over their product’s performance and efficiency. We appreciate all the feedback so far, and we’ll continue to bring further performance and performance/W optimizations to the Radeon RX 480.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Don't be too sure about counting your chickens yet.

There are two possible approaches that don't require new hardware:

1) Power throttle the cards more than they already are. This will limit maximum power use to below 150W, making it possible to keep power draw within spec for both the PCI-E slot (75W) and the 6-pin connector (75W). Of course, this approach reduces performance.

2) Alter the proportion of the total power draw taken from each source. So instead of drawing 85W from the PCI-E slot and 85W from the 6-pin connector, draw 75W from the PCI-E slot and 95W from the 6-pin connector. This approach goes over spec for the 6-pin connector even more than it already is. That probably won't matter because they're usually capable of going way over spec without any issues. But they're not guaranteed to do so because they're only required to be in spec, so it may cause problems.

EDIT: Bugger, I am wrong and missed the obvious fix that avoids both problems - reduce the voltages if that's possible. Wouldn't take much of a reduction.

Limiting the power consumption would reduce performance probably by no more than 1-2% at most; GTX1080 FE- a £600 card loses more performance than that comparing to the performance quoted in reviews just by being used inside a PC instead of open-bench (due to boost clock to boosting as high )

But obvious it's AMD so it is big issue, while for Nvidia...not so much.