Soldato
No chance of that in Zen4 tbh. AMD not been leaving any headroom and if they could get to 6Ghz, we'd know.
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AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022
- Thread starter Cromulent
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nah man. With the sheer power of dreams and back of napkin fantasy math, anything is possible.
Zen 4 being under 20% ST with just 8% ipc almost 2 years after zen 3 released is quite disappointing and seems like AMD is starting to run out of ideas other than to push up clocks which can become a problem in itself as Intel discovered a few years ago when trying initially to move to 10nm.8 to 10% IPC gain, on top of that 5.6Ghz that we have seen, could be higher.
So <15% ST is more like <20%, which isn't bad, i mean.... are we now at that stage where we sniff at a 20% ST over generation gain? Who do we have to thank for that and do we need to ground ourselves a little?
Don
Not sure they are running out of ideas, but better to play it safe whilst moving to a new socket/memory controller. Increasing clock speeds is easy once you know everything works fine
This, glad to see AMD being smart about things. Steady progress is good to see, and when all's said and done is way more than 5%
Soldato
8% IPC is still decent for a single generation considering all other improvements if you consider for years Intel gave between 0% and 3% max IPC for about 7 generations of chips meaning this is still about 3 generation improvement that Intel was managing.
And with how that allows them to have built out a complete architecture review in Zen5 from the latest info as they worked on socket and gen5 support etc for everything else that seems like a solid business plan so they didn't mess up trying to do everything at once.
Soldato
You've got the costs waaaaaaaaaaaay off as usual. Same as you did with the 5800X3D.
X670 boards will be starting from ~£170 for the equivalent of the Z690, so like the MSI Z690 Pro-A. 32GB DDR5 is now from ~£160, and AMD will be targeting Raptor Lake parts with 8c/16t parts at ~£319-349. So total cost will be more like £650-680, and that doesn't included the MoM drop in DDR5 that is being seen.
Also it's 8% IPC, plus uplift in clock speed, so if you actually care about your total system performance it will be more like 20+%. So sure 1/5 more power for 1/5 more cost but on a new platform.
Another point to make is if you're building from scratch it doesn't matter what the uplift is as long as it's competitive with its peers. If you do upgrade, some of the cost if often offset selling the older gear. If you're on recent Intel or AMD and not using it to make money I wouldn't be upgrading.
£200 for a board £450 CPU and £300 for 32gb 6000mhz ram.
Soldato
So why would the cost of DDR5 6000 be more than it is now? It's from £240 for 32GB 6000/C40 which can be clocked to 6600+ C36/32.
I'll quote how wrong you were, when they are released/announced.
Because demand is low right now for DDR5 but that will change once the new platforms are out and solely require DDR5.So why would the cost of DDR5 6000 be more than it is now? It's from £240 for 32GB 6000/C40 which can be clocked to 6600+ C36/32.
I'll quote how wrong you were, when they are released/announced.
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IPC increase and frequency increase over previous generation making it about 35% better at multitasking than Zen 3 is pretty poor isn't it.
Soldato
So what you are saying is AM5 is 7xxx parts are going to outsell anything Intel has by an order of magnitude or more, since they can still use DDR4, so all the extra DDR5 supply will be absorbed by newer AM5 systems. Or you are just wrong.
A large part of the 35% uplift is mainly due to the power limit going up though, you can already boost zen 3 by over 20% on SKUs like the 5950X just by setting a 4.7ghz all core OC and allowing it to draw over 200w so for zen 4 a further 10-15% isn't really as impressive as it looks at first glance.
Aren't the 700 series Intel boards also supposedly DDR5 only?.
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Soldato
What's that got to do with the fact Rocket Lake will fit in Z690/B660 DDR4 boards. If what you are saying is true then the prices rise so people stop buying it, so the prices drop, so people buy it again, etc. DDR5 supply for second half of 2022 is at a huge volume compared with H1, and the PC market is in the doldrums with its biggest ever decline in recent history, so in the actual volume markets for OEM's where the vast majority of consumer geared RAM goes it isn't being bought hence why prices have tanked by 25% in 6 weeks.
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35% increase is down to more ipc and higher frequency. Remind me how much power a 12900k uses?
You can’t comment on power usage unless you know exactly how much zen 4 uses.
Then why has AMD said themselves that ST performance is only up by around 15%, it's obvious that the MT performance has a lot more to do with the increased power limits rather than ipc and the higher frequency is a result of that. The ST performance isn't tied to power limits which is why the gains are much more modest.
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