AMD Vega II Pre-Orders When ?

[Safetytrousers]

Do they come with 3 games? And are they actual brand names with good customer support? Some of the brand are a nightmare to deal with.

EVGA and MSI.
Battlefield V and Anthem with the MSI (which is the free shipping one), 'subject to availability'.

 

[TheMadHatter]

Do they come with 3 games? And are they actual brand names with good customer support? Some of the brand are a nightmare to deal with.

Did I miss something where does it say the new Vega comes with 3 games

 

[TheMadHatter]

EVGA and MSI.

Aren't evga amongst the best for CS ?

 

[Gerard]

Did I miss something where does it say the new Vega comes with 3 games

Said so in the stream for a limited time it comes with Division 2, Devil may Cry 5 and Resident Evil 2.

1 hour 13 mins in.



People seem to have not noticed, or ignored that part of the announcement. So $150 or thereabouts worth of games.

 

[djkav]

And the 2080 is massively overpriced and the most disappointing Nvidia GPU I can remember. How AMD thinks this is good is beyond me, no wonder Mike Rayfield was fired. Ryzen 3000 looked good though, hopefully that was the Ryzen 5 as was rumoured.

It was a Ryzen 5 36xx as it was a single chiplet 8c/16t

Ryzen 3 33xx 6c/12t (single chiplet)
Ryzen 5 36xx 8c/16t (single chiplet)
Ryzen 7 37xx 12c/24t (dual 6c chiplet)
Ryzen 9 38xx 16c/32t (dual 8c chiplet)

 

[flea.rider]

you have to think once you turn on rtx your frame rate drops by half ? is that worth it .. ?or just use a vega 7 ? I'm sticking with my vega till navi .. well because my 290 died ..
so full upgrade next yr navi and zen 2/3

 

[Poneros]

There are three RTX 2080's on UK Google shopping for a bit less than £650 (one is free shipping).

£650 2080s are all gimped versions (non-A) aka 10% worse performing (at best).

 

[Scougar]

What is gimped about them exactly?

Also... Vega ll, not Nvidia please.

 

[IT Troll]

People seem to have not noticed, or ignored that part of the announcement. So $150 or thereabouts worth of games.

It would be better if they binned the games and knocked $150 off the price. I suppose you might get £40 - £50 for the lot on MM.

 

[Gibbo]

It would be better if they binned the games and knocked $150 off the price. I suppose you might get £40 - £50 for the lot on MM.

The games have a retail value of $150 but AMD buy thousands and probably get all three games for less than $10 so they could not knock $150 off.

So it is far better for promotion and as a value added to do this way.

 

[Tute]

Ah, Gibbo. What can you tell us then? Should we expect £650-700? Stock on launch day? Any pre-ordering?

 

[Poneros]

What is gimped about them exactly?

Also... Vega ll, not Nvidia please.

They bin chips, so all the cheap Turing cards you see generally have a 10% performance hit compared to what you see in reviews (irrespective of cooler differences). So you might think, blimey, this fancy rtx card is only £XXX, £50-100 cheaper than these other ones, what a bargain! Except you're getting 90% of a card. You can see which is which (kinda, not wholly reliable yet) on techpowerup.com (eg for 2080:
TU104-400-A1 are Normal Chips (no factory OC permitted).
TU104-400A-A1 are Binned Chips (factory OC permitted).)

No free lunches.

 

[Scougar]

You sure you are not referring to stock (reference) speeds and factory overclocked models (faster than stock/reference) ?

 

[Participant]

you have to think once you turn on rtx your frame rate drops by half ? is that worth it .. ?or just use a vega 7 ?

With the RTX you at least get the choice about whether or not to use RTX. Don't like the rates? Switch off RTX. If they're the same price then why would one chose not to retain the option?

With expected further improvements in RTX frame rates from drivers, dlss, etc., I can't see what VII brings to the party at that price.

 

[Poneros]

You sure you are not referring to stock (reference) speeds and factory overclocked models (faster than stock/reference) ?

Yes. The difference here is that for AMD cards that kind of binning doesn't happen (yet), it's just good old silicon lottery - which still applies even to A chip Nvidia cards, but that's besides the selective binning.

For the consumer this is confusing (intentionally no doubt), so it leads to making misinformed purchases. That's why for people at a first glance it seems like Nvidia has better cards than AMD, because there's multiple avenues of misinformation all contributing to it. Even leaving aside that reviewers don't know how to properly bench a Vega card, let's look at V64 vs 2070 as an example.

For Turing you have multiple sub-tiers for it which gate your performance. First one is chip. Is it A or non-A? If non-A then that means you are 10% slower than A. Secondly, good old fashioned silicon lottery (applies to chips in general). Third, you have arbitrary power limits (Nvidia-only) & cooler performance. Fourth, you have no control over voltage (Nvidia again).

So when you look at a review of a FE 2070 you (or rather the average reader) might think that that's more or less the performance you'll get from the cheaper 2070s too, because heck it's still a 2070 right? Wrong, because you have losses at every step of the way so those cheapo 2070s (and same situation for all Turing cards) actually tend to be 10-15% slower in overall performance than let's say an FE (and this is without normalizing for noise, purely on a performance-basis i.e. 100% fans).

AMD cards on the other hand don't have these issues, only cooler performance to worry about or AIB vendor mishaps (e.g. Strix with their ****** thermal pads; but then I'm inclined to say people who buy Asus deserve to get it hard and dry). There's no A/non-A differentiation, power & voltage is easily tweakable with no real limits imposed by AMD, and the cards aren't as thermally sensitive in relation to performance.

So in order to actually compare Nvidia & AMD cards you need to actually go up in price £50-100 for Nvidia cards, because the cheapo ones have a performance lag in reality and won't measure up. Ofc, for V64 atm @ £420 no 2070 can compete, but that's another matter.

It's gonna be the same scenario again with Radeon 7, people will look at performance from the expensive 2080s which are binned and properly cooled and assume that they'll get more or less the same performance from the cheap 2080s so that way it's not so far away from a Radeon 7 after all. It's simply not the case.

 

[OLDPHART]

Waiting to see how it performs against the 2080, using a vega56 atm.

 

[D.P.]

£650 2080s are all gimped versions (non-A) aka 10% worse performing (at best).

They will still perform faster than Vega7

 

[Kaapstad]

Funny you should ask: https://www.hardocp.com/article/201..._nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2080_ti_performance/9

The most amusing thing in that article is seeing how both 2080ti & 2080 are showing vram to be their biggest weakness. The tragicomical element is we've seen this play out before a couple of times, always with the same ending, and yet it keeps happening with every new gpu gen.

I ran the game on my card using Ultra DXR and max settings @2160p, all I managed to use was 8gb of vram.

If you look closely at the figures above for Ultra DXR at 1080p, 1440p and 2160p it looks like the reviewer has made some mistakes. Almost the same memory usage for 1080p and 1440p even though the pixels have nearly doubled. Then when 1440p and 2160p are compared the memory usage increases quite a bit.

 

[Brazo]

Yes. The difference here is that for AMD cards that kind of binning doesn't happen (yet), it's just good old silicon lottery - which still applies even to A chip Nvidia cards, but that's besides the selective binning.

For the consumer this is confusing (intentionally no doubt), so it leads to making misinformed purchases. That's why for people at a first glance it seems like Nvidia has better cards than AMD, because there's multiple avenues of misinformation all contributing to it. Even leaving aside that reviewers don't know how to properly bench a Vega card, let's look at V64 vs 2070 as an example.

For Turing you have multiple sub-tiers for it which gate your performance. First one is chip. Is it A or non-A? If non-A then that means you are 10% slower than A. Secondly, good old fashioned silicon lottery (applies to chips in general). Third, you have arbitrary power limits (Nvidia-only) & cooler performance. Fourth, you have no control over voltage (Nvidia again).

So when you look at a review of a FE 2070 you (or rather the average reader) might think that that's more or less the performance you'll get from the cheaper 2070s too, because heck it's still a 2070 right? Wrong, because you have losses at every step of the way so those cheapo 2070s (and same situation for all Turing cards) actually tend to be 10-15% slower in overall performance than let's say an FE (and this is without normalizing for noise, purely on a performance-basis i.e. 100% fans).

AMD cards on the other hand don't have these issues, only cooler performance to worry about or AIB vendor mishaps (e.g. Strix with their ****** thermal pads; but then I'm inclined to say people who buy Asus deserve to get it hard and dry). There's no A/non-A differentiation, power & voltage is easily tweakable with no real limits imposed by AMD, and the cards aren't as thermally sensitive in relation to performance.

So in order to actually compare Nvidia & AMD cards you need to actually go up in price £50-100 for Nvidia cards, because the cheapo ones have a performance lag in reality and won't measure up. Ofc, for V64 atm @ £420 no 2070 can compete, but that's another matter.

It's gonna be the same scenario again with Radeon 7, people will look at performance from the expensive 2080s which are binned and properly cooled and assume that they'll get more or less the same performance from the cheap 2080s so that way it's not so far away from a Radeon 7 after all. It's simply not the case.

Really no need for such wild speculation.

People can simply look at a review of a cheaper 2070 card to see how much better that card is than Vega 64.

Here’s One of the cheapest 2070 https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...92mb-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-34l-ms.html

Here’s its review https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-rtx-2070-armor-8g-review,1.html

 

[Scougar]

In a world of auto variable overclocking on gpus I can see how you might say these things. However, I don't consider these cards "gimped".

People should be reading reviews before purchase and looking for purchaser feedback. I know that this might not happen in reality (like me overhearing a father asking an electronic store employee he needs something called a GTX 2080... Obviously the guy was clueless). The vast majority don't know, don't care. They think they are getting good regardless.