*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***

[4K8KW10]

Will AMD make the 12-core Zen 4 SKU(s) more affordable and more mainstream?

I mean will we see more choice like a 65-watt 12-core, 95-watt 12-core and >=105-watt SKUs?


Or will Zen 4 be maximum 8-core MSDT APU?

 

[Guest2]

I guess it might be worth it for that niche group that are graphic artists or something transferring massive files or people with huge 8K or 16K video files. For GPUs it doesn't seem necessary (unless, I suppose, we go to multiple GPUs per card). There was a Hardware Unboxed video yesterday that showed even PCIe 3.0 x8 didn't affect GPU performance too badly, especially as resolutions increased.

Going between PCIe 3.0 x8 and x16 with my 2080Ti there was about a 25% drop in performance at 3440x1440 using gsync. I heard read that gsync uses much more bandwidth.
Not sure about PCIe 3.0 to 4.0

 

[ljt]

Will AMD make the 12-core Zen 4 SKU(s) more affordable and more mainstream?

I mean will we see more choice like a 65-watt 12-core, 95-watt 12-core and >=105-watt SKUs?


Or will Zen 4 be maximum 8-core MSDT APU?

I'm hoping the 6000 (zen 4) series to be;

Ryzen 3s to be 6c/12t
Ryzen 5s to be 8c/16t
Ryzen 7s to be 12c/24t
Ryzen 9s to be 16c/32t

And no price hike like the current 5000 series

 

[Alex h]

I'm hoping the 6000 (zen 4) series to be;

Ryzen 3s to be 6c/12t
Ryzen 5s to be 8c/16t
Ryzen 7s to be 12c/24t
Ryzen 9s to be 16c/32t

And no price hike like the current 5000 series

I reckon these will be more expensive but we'll see when they're released

 

[jigger]

I'm hoping the 6000 (zen 4) series to be;

Ryzen 3s to be 6c/12t
Ryzen 5s to be 8c/16t
Ryzen 7s to be 12c/24t
Ryzen 9s to be 16c/32t

And no price hike like the current 5000 series

I think we will have 8-16 core APU’s with a large pool of memory by then.

 

[pc-guy]

I'm hoping the 6000 (zen 4) series to be;

Ryzen 3s to be 6c/12t
Ryzen 5s to be 8c/16t
Ryzen 7s to be 12c/24t
Ryzen 9s to be 16c/32t

And no price hike like the current 5000 series

By the time 6000 come out, I don’t think AMD will be putting more cores on their die. Intel isn’t planning on doing more than 16Cs on their 8big 8little design. So AMD’s 16 full fat cores will annihilate intels in multicore metrics. So they won’t bother.

Ryzen 3 will still be 4c part for a long time, the super budget market is huge. AMD will definitely be putting out dirt cheap 4c parts to compete in the cheapy market sector. OEMs love those SKU as lots of people and companies buy them.

our company still gets 4c intel’s for basic machines.

 

[4K8KW10]

I think we will have 8-16 core APU’s with a large pool of memory by then.

If Raphael with Zen 4 cores is maximum 16-core APU as you say with memory pool, what happens to Threadripper that needs up to at least 64 cores?
It's missing from the roadmap that is in one of the previous posts in this thread.

By the time 6000 come out, I don’t think AMD will be putting more cores on their die. Intel isn’t planning on doing more than 16Cs on their 8big 8little design. So AMD’s 16 full fat cores will annihilate intels in multicore metrics. So they won’t bother.

Ryzen 3 will still be 4c part for a long time, the super budget market is huge. AMD will definitely be putting out dirt cheap 4c parts to compete in the cheapy market sector. OEMs love those SKU as lots of people and companies buy them.

our company still gets 4c intel’s for basic machines.

4-core for Office and Internet browser is just fine.

The problems start while playing games, doing content creation and other more serious multi-tasking or heavier software.
There is software that eats as many cores as you throw at it.

 

[Mr Oblong]

By the time 6000 come out, I don’t think AMD will be putting more cores on their die. Intel isn’t planning on doing more than 16Cs on their 8big 8little design. So AMD’s 16 full fat cores will annihilate intels in multicore metrics. So they won’t bother.

Ryzen 3 will still be 4c part for a long time, the super budget market is huge. AMD will definitely be putting out dirt cheap 4c parts to compete in the cheapy market sector. OEMs love those SKU as lots of people and companies buy them.

our company still gets 4c intel’s for basic machines.

Yep. Basic productivity is still the biggest user need and 4 cheap cores will handle that stuff pretty fine at an appealingly low price.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Its a new 5nm node, do you think its possible to get 5ghz of its first iteration?

Usually its a challenge to get on a new process and also get faster clock speeds AND improve IPC all in 1 go.

 

[kevman]

Usually its a challenge to get on a new process and also get faster clock speeds AND improve IPC all in 1 go.

This is what I am gambling on - that zen 3 might be faster for the first year or two being a more mature process. The new 5nm should be more efficient though.
Factor in inevitable teething troubles with DDR 5 and I'm thinking that now is the right time to buy.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

This is what I am gambling on - that zen 3 might be faster for the first year or two being a more mature process. The new 5nm should be more efficient though.
Factor in inevitable teething troubles with DDR 5 and I'm thinking that now is the right time to buy.

I mean im confident they could get the IPC and efficency. But the extra clock speed increase I doubt, and its very possible they could be lower than what we get currently which could affect performance in games.

Think it just makes the 5000 series more attractive as you said

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Zen4 only needs a 14% IPC increase to be a massive 52% ahead of Zen. Just like Zen was 52% ahead of Excavator.

Zen+ added 4%
Zen2 added 15%
Zen3 added 19%

38% IPC increase so far over Zen, only 14% more to go and Zen will be just as far behind as Excavator was. Their progress is crazy.

 

[Deleted member 209350]

Zen4 only needs a 14% IPC increase to be a massive 52% ahead of Zen. Just like Zen was 52% ahead of Excavator.

Zen+ added 4%
Zen2 added 15%
Zen3 added 19%

38% IPC increase so far over Zen, only 14% more to go and Zen will be just as far behind as Excavator was. Their progress is crazy.

Whats truly insane is that each year the IPC increase is getting bigger

 

[4K8KW10]

AMD Committed To Offering Massive Perf Per Watt Gains With Next-Gen RDNA 3 Radeon RX GPU Lineup, Will Take Full Advantage of 5nm Process Node For Zen 4
https://wccftech.com/amd-rdna-3-radeon-rx-gpus-and-zen-4-ryzen-cpus-perf-per-watt-gains-5nm/

 

[Rofflay]

The problem i have is older games like WoW and Totalwar will only gain from IPC and memory and i know how massive ram is there. So i am sort of wondering do it should i etc.

Really i want 8c 16T and DDR5 usb 4.0 and PCIE 5
0. These are all massive things but 2022 is quite the wait, Is it really that far away? Is there any possibility of 2021 Q4? And another point new boards will mean future proofing on paper Zen4 seems a dream upgrade.

 

[4K8KW10]

The problem i have is older games like WoW and Totalwar will only gain from IPC and memory and i know how massive ram is there. So i am sort of wondering do it should i etc.

Really i want 8c 16T and DDR5 usb 4.0 and PCIE 5
0. These are all massive things but 2022 is quite the wait, Is it really that far away? Is there any possibility of 2021 Q4? And another point new boards will mean future proofing on paper Zen4 seems a dream upgrade.

The thing is that according to the roadmap, between Zen 3 which is not even shipped out properly just yet and Zen 4, there will be a middle generation Zen3+ with codename Warhol.
If Warhol keeps the same release cadence of at least 12 months, then expect it by next year the same time, and only after that Zen 4 on the new N5 TSMC process.

 

[Rofflay]

The thing is that according to the roadmap, between Zen 3 which is not even shipped out properly just yet and Zen 4, there will be a middle generation Zen3+ with codename Warhol.
If Warhol keeps the same release cadence of at least 12 months, then expect it by next year the same time, and only after that Zen 4 on the new N5 TSMC process.

Warhol Marvel edition

Sadly though it will probably not have the new board and thus no PCIE 5.0.

 

[4K8KW10]

Warhol Marvel edition

Sadly though it will probably not have the new board and thus no PCIE 5.0.

The storage throughputs are really important for the servers solutions. This is why next year we will eventually see PCIe 6 released:

PCIe 6.0 Specification Reaches Milestone, Remains on Track for a 2021 Release

 

[Rofflay]

The storage throughputs are really important for the servers solutions. This is why next year we will eventually see PCIe 6 released:

PCIe 6.0 Specification Reaches Milestone, Remains on Track for a 2021 Release

But surely will not be here in time for Zen3 or Zen4? Can they swap it now? They already said 2021 for PCIE 5.0. These things take time to come to fruition. Would like to have it though.

 

[4K8KW10]

But surely will not be here in time for Zen3 or Zen4? Can they swap it now? They already said 2021 for PCIE 5.0. These things take time to come to fruition. Would like to have it though.

This is very strange. They had kept PCIe 3 for agonizing 7! years while now today they want to move to doubling the throughput every two years. I don't see how it will work nor the implementation for normal PC users.

Some later version of Zen 4 can support PCIe 6.