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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

DragonQ said:
Well yes, that's a (roughly) year cycle for new releases. In isolation even that seems a bit pointless due to the minor improvements each time but of course OEMs love it and it makes Intel money so whatever.

This is a bit different though because Zen is so close and it's a far bigger jump than any of Intel's new CPUs is these days. It seems as though Bristol Ridge is basically a tinkering platform for AMD to try some stuff on a mature architecture before jumping straight to Raven Bridge. That seems very sensible but at first I couldn't see why anyone would buy it. I guess the fact that it's AM4 means there's a nice upgrade path over the next few years, plus they're only going to OEMs (for now) who can of course make use of the lower power requirements, so they'll shift some units.
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No, DM's point was pretty accurate. It will be at least five months, probably more, before we see Zen-based APUs. Actually available to buy in laptops, probably a bit longer than that. They can do these chips pretty cheaply and they're good performance for power and ahead of Intel in terms of graphical power. Half a year of making profit is better than half a year of not. Zen's primary focus is the server market. Which is why they're targetting the power-performance angle so much with Zen. AMD are in the lead when it comes to APUs so they want to keep that position. Carrizo was actually very good - just hamstrung by low-end OEM hardware (half the time they wouldn't even give it dual-channel RAM). Stick these in a decent laptop and it will be a good buy.
 
Zen based APU's are a year away, maybe a touch less, but not 5 months at all. 5 months is when the CPUs will become widely available, APU are much later.

It's looking like Q1 for CPU, Q2(early or late, not sure) for server and Q3 for APU, again early or late is not known. So high volume availability of APUs won't be till around this time next year.
 
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DragonQ said:
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I wasn't thinking from the consumer's point of view, I was thinking from AMD's point of view. Of course the vast majority of people have no idea what they're buying. However, why put the R&D (albeit minimal), time and effort into Bristol Ridge when they are about to realase Zen and will later release Raven Ridge based off of it? Why not just put out Raven Ridge alongside Summit Ridge instead?

As I said though, I guess it gives them a chance to stagger releases and decrease the element of risk. It also lets them tinker with a mature architecture, which again spreads the risk. Or maybe they just need sales numbers for this tax year, who knows.
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There is a lot more to chips than just the architecture, any and all power saving features are essential steps moving forwards. Everything they learn about designing transistors and layout for power saving carry over to Zen. The main architecture changes completely, but power delivery, power gating, software for controlling it, improvements in on chip VRMs, all is an ongoing process. You take a step out and you lose another generation of gained knowledge and experience.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Zen based APU's are a year away, maybe a touch less, but not 5 months at all. 5 months is when the CPUs will become widely available, APU are much later.

It's looking like Q1 for CPU, Q2(early or late, not sure) for server and Q3 for APU, again early or late is not known. So high volume availability of APUs won't be till around this time next year.
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I stand corrected, thank you. In that case, even more reason to get these APUs out and selling. Eventually Intel will (presumably) catch up with AMD on the graphics side of their chips - so it makes sense for AMD to exploit their lead in this one area as much as possible for the present.
 
Where are these 35w AMD laptops though? I was seriously tempted to buy an AMD Carrizo based laptop when I seen the specs...then only 1 OEM (Acer I believe) made a laptop with the top end 35w chip, and the machine looked hideous.

AMD need to address this issue.
 
EvilFranky said:
Where are these 35w AMD laptops though? I was seriously tempted to buy an AMD Carrizo based laptop when I seen the specs...then only 1 OEM (Acer I believe) made a laptop with the top end 35w chip, and the machine looked hideous.

AMD need to address this issue.
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Anandtech ran a very comprehensive article on the relationship between AMD and the OEMs and the problems AMD was having with getting OEMs to put their chips in decent hardware. It's pretty long, but it's worth making time for at least the following page:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested/7

I sincerely hope that we see both Bristol Ridge and subsequent Zen APUs housed in good quality homes going forward. With all the good press AMD are getting these days with the 480 and the hopes for Zen, it seems like that might buy them some equality with Intel as far as OEMs are concerned. I hope so, at least.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Anandtech ran a very comprehensive article on the relationship between AMD and the OEMs and the problems AMD was having with getting OEMs to put their chips in decent hardware. It's pretty long, but it's worth making time for at least the following page:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested/7

I sincerely hope that we see both Bristol Ridge and subsequent Zen APUs housed in good quality homes going forward. With all the good press AMD are getting these days with the 480 and the hopes for Zen, it seems like that might buy them some equality with Intel as far as OEMs are concerned. I hope so, at least.
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Ah yes, I remember reading that article and it was the Lenovo machine I meant...not Acer :rolleyes:

Hoping Bristol Ridge doesn't suffer the same fate.
 
Farious said:
Cool. But if Zen is good I will kind of feel a bit guilty using the same cooler for 8 or 9 years but then again, I'll happily bank that money :D
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Same here, but on the plus side, it means Noctua are my go to recommendation whenever somebody needs a cooler. You can't beat service like that and their coolers are great. I have one of their older ones and it's never let me down.
 
Farious said:
Cool. But if Zen is good I will kind of feel a bit guilty using the same cooler for 8 or 9 years but then again, I'll happily bank that money :D
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I'm finally getting enough desk space for more than one monitor soon and I might use it as an opportunity to upgrade (more likely next summer since that's when the heat output of my rig is most annoying). Anything under 12 virtual cores will feel like a downgrade so Zen is certainly on my radar. Unless I move to water cooling or something I doubt I'll need to change the cooler. Even the best coolers in the ~£50 range (what mine cost) only beat mine by a few degrees.

Aside from the heat output, the main reasons for me to consider upgrading will likely be NVMe PCIe SSDs and maybe USB 3.1 Gen 2 for USB sticks but honestly I rarely need them these days except to install OSs or restore OS images and my ancient 8 GB USB 2.0 sticks work fine for this.
 
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I wonder how many companies will provide new mounting hardware to owners or whether we will just get an almighty landslide of new CPU coolers. What happened last time we had a new mounting system introduced?
 
Drat, earlier reports seemed to suggest that the spacing would be the same as AM3+, I hope Alpenfohn do a set of mounts for the K2, but I won't hold my breath given that it's EOL, perhaps the Olymp uses a compatible bracket.
 
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