*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[haszek]

I think in the latest adoredtv video, he had slide that zen+will have minimum 10% performance increase, hopefully this will be just for IPC+higher clock speeds as a bonus.

 

[Matkinson]

Either way, the second it comes out, it'll be time to get excited for Zen 2.

I mean, ram prices will hopefully be a bit more normal by 2019.

 

[DragonQ]

Ram prices suck! Does anyone know if Zen 2 will be supporting DDR5 by any chance?

No, Zen 2 is due in 2019 for the AM4 platform. AM4 is supposed to be supported until 2020, and DDR5 is coincidentally due to be available in 2020 also.

 

[gavinh87]

Ah... now i see whats going on, this is not that Intel + Vega thing, this is just a middling little APU for middling thin laptops, its not even AMD's high end mobile APU.

Nope, not interested in that mongrel thing either

 

[Matkinson]

Nope, not interested in that mongrel thing either

 

[ScottiB]

I mean, ram prices will hopefully be a bit more normal by 2019.

I think that'll depend on whether the demand from the smartphone market continues to increase at the current rate or not.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think that'll depend on whether the demand from the smartphone market continues to increase at the current rate or not.

Its probably not really due to any demand - its more likely price fixing and the RAM companies have been caught more than once in the last 15 years doing it and have been fined. The same excuses were used for HDDs after the floods,and yet years after when the factories were perfectly fine the companies nicely kept prices high and even dropped the length of warranties.

China is now actively investigating them:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tiny-on-chips-after-price-surge-idUSKBN1EL017

 

[Doobedoo]

Its probably not really due to any demand - its more likely price fixing and the RAM companies have been caught more than once in the last 15 years doing it and have been fined. The same excuses were used for HDDs after the floods,and yet years after when the factories were perfectly fine the companies nicely kept prices high and even dropped the length of warranties.

China is now actively investigating them:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tiny-on-chips-after-price-surge-idUSKBN1EL017

No doubt reflects why they have made record amounts of profit too.

I'm all but set on an upgrade I'm just very reluctant to pay silly money for ram to the point where I'm almost talking myself into waiting for Ddr5.

 

[nashathedog]

No, Zen 2 is due in 2019 for the AM4 platform. AM4 is supposed to be supported until 2020, and DDR5 is coincidentally due to be available in 2020 also.

That doesn't necessarily mean it won't be available for either, They're already saying that they'll be releasing an AM4 470 range with the refresh and that we'll need the newer m/b range to get the most out of the refresh chips, They'll still work with our older 370/350 boards but don't expect the new chips full potential, They could pull the same move and release ddr5 Am4 mb/s alongside Zen 2. If you remember Skylake could be used with ddr3 or ddr4 so there's no reason why AMD couldn't do something similar with ddr4 & ddr5.

 

[DragonQ]

That doesn't necessarily mean it won't be available for either, They're already saying that they'll be releasing an AM4 470 range with the refresh and that we'll need the newer m/b range to get the most out of the refresh chips, They'll still work with our older 370/350 boards but don't expect the new chips full potential, They could pull the same move and release ddr5 Am4 mb/s alongside Zen 2. If you remember Skylake could be used with ddr3 or ddr4 so there's no reason why AMD couldn't do something similar with ddr4 & ddr5.

How would they release a chip in 2019 to use RAM that isn't available until 2020?

 

[nashathedog]

How would they release a chip in 2019 to use RAM that isn't available until 2020?

You're right it won't be supported in 2019 if it's not due until 2020 but, that doesn't mean we won't see a Zen 2 refresh in 2020 (with m/b support for ddr5) like we're seeing for Zen 1 this year, That said if it's in 2020 it's past AM4's promised support window anyway. Either way I'm wrong.

 

[Curlyriff]

They may well have deep pockets but they may not want to reach too far into them considering the desktop processor market is a shrinking one and data center, mobile market ect is a growing one.

We have already seen the gap shrink by a large amount and unless they get these 10nm chips out soon with good results, that lead may vanish altogether.

Double edge sword that one though. The consumer market is in decline because there has been no real reason to upgrade in 7 years for a start. So all the people who are sitting on these is a market that they could pick up tens of millions of people if we actually got the 40% performance improvement that is being touted for 2019 it would be something Intel need to consider I would think.

 

[humbug]

You're right it won't be supported in 2019 if it's not due until 2020 but, that doesn't mean we won't see a Zen 2 refresh in 2020 (with m/b support for ddr5) like we're seeing for Zen 1 this year, That said if it's in 2020 it's past AM4's promised support window anyway. Either way I'm wrong.

This.

If the specification are finalized in time there is no reason why Intel/AMD cannot have DDR5 ready CPU's before release, if i remember right AMD had DD3 on Phenoms before DDR3 was released, they were both DDR2 and DDR3 compatible.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

Double edge sword that one though. The consumer market is in decline because there has been no real reason to upgrade in 7 years for a start. So all the people who are sitting on these is a market that they could pick up tens of millions of people if we actually got the 40% performance improvement that is being touted for 2019 it would be something Intel need to consider I would think.

40% performance gain said by who? AMD? Looks like i might be holding onto my 5820k until next year at least tbh. Though it would be nice to get DDR5 along with a new mobo & CPU.

 

[humbug]

Yeah who?

AMD said they were aiming for 40% over excavator for Zen, what is now Ryzen, it actually ended up 52% over Excavator and 68% over Vishera (FX-#3## series)

AMD said Ryzen 2 CPU's would be "Double Digits" performance improvement over Ryzen 1###, (what they apparently told Jaz2Cents) we know GloFo 12nm is "at least" 10% faster than 14nm, so 10% higher clocks would make the Ryzen 7 2800X 4.1Ghz base clock with a 4.2Ghz XFR and 4.5Ghz overclock.

I think we can expect that for Ryzen 2, perhaps also a 5% IPC increase from low hanging fruit architectural tweaks, so maybe 15% total and even with that Intel should be worried because that would put the mid range Ryzen 5 2600X uncomfortably close to their I7 8700K, i fact so close you may have trouble telling them apart let alone justify the price difference.

 

[Curlyriff]

40% performance gain said by who? AMD? Looks like i might be holding onto my 5820k until next year at least tbh. Though it would be nice to get DDR5 along with a new mobo & CPU.

Technically global foundries are suggesting their new 7nm will give 40% more performance or 55% better power saving compared to their current process. These are for what is going to be early 2019 desktop CPU's

And we are not likely to see DDR5 till 2020 so would likely need new mobo for that when it drops so depends if you really want to get things twice tbh. Personally with what have I think you would be good till 2020.

 

[humbug]

Technically global foundries are suggesting their new 7nm will give 40% more performance or 55% better power saving compared to their current process. These are for what is going to be early 2019 desktop CPU's

And we are not likely to see DDR5 till 2020 so would likely need new mobo for that when it drops so depends if you really want to get things twice tbh. Personally with what have I think you would be good till 2020.

That's the one that they say is a 5Ghz Process, which would be awesome, GloFo 7nm will be Ryzen 3

 

[haszek]

Yeah who?

AMD said they were aiming for 40% over excavator for Zen, what is now Ryzen, it actually ended up 52% over Excavator and 68% over Vishera (FX-#3## series)

AMD said Ryzen 2 CPU's would be "Double Digits" performance improvement over Ryzen 1###, (what they apparently told Jaz2Cents) we know GloFo 12nm is "at least" 10% faster than 14nm, so 10% higher clocks would make the Ryzen 7 2800X 4.1Ghz base clock with a 4.2Ghz XFR and 4.5Ghz overclock.

I think we can expect that for Ryzen 2, perhaps also a 5% IPC increase from low hanging fruit architectural tweaks, so maybe 15% total and even with that Intel should be worried because that would put the mid range Ryzen 5 2600X uncomfortably close to their I7 8700K, i fact so close you may have trouble telling them apart let alone justify the price difference.

Didn't they say 10%+ performance not speed? This would mean minimum 10% increased IPC

 

[Doogles]

40% performance gain said by who? AMD? Looks like i might be holding onto my 5820k until next year at least tbh. Though it would be nice to get DDR5 along with a new mobo & CPU.

If you think you'll be getting DDR5 before 2020 I'd like to have what you've been taking! If you really want more speed then the 8700k will be your best option, higher IPC by far along with higher clocks.

 

[DragonQ]

Didn't they say 10%+ performance not speed? This would mean minimum 10% increased IPC

It's very vague. "Performance" could mean anything and that's compared to 16 nm IIRC, not 14 nm. They also claim they're aiming for clock speeds of 5 GHz, so who knows.