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AMD’s DirectX 12 Advantage Explained – GCN Architecture More Friendly To Parallelism Than Maxwell

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
What I predict will happen,is that both sides will say their uarch is better,then this will drop:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18689120

It will perform better on Maxwell OFC. Then another game will perform better on AMD hardware and then the argument will continue.

Then Pascal and Arctic Islands will drop,and offer better DX12 and VR performance when we get enough DX12 games,and everyone will forget the previous cards!:p
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+1 to this.
 
Seanspeed said:
A lot of that is going over my head, but I think one of the takeaways is that DX12 could end up being trouble for developers who aren't versed in low level programming. Today, we have games that perform better or worse for either Nvidia GPU's or AMD GPU's and it sounds like this disparity could grow significantly as driver importance is reduced and developers get much more access to the specific functionality of the GPU's. So unless AMD and Nvidia converge in terms of their architecture designs, then benchmarks might start being even more about how a game was developed rather than a clear reflection of the power capabilities between cards.
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I think they might end up converging somewhat for the next gen but from different directions.

However, people forget Microsoft released DX11.3 too and IIRC it was targeted at smaller devs.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I think they might end up converging somewhat for the next gen but from different directions.

However, people forget Microsoft released DX11.3 too and IIRC it was targeted at smaller devs.
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Yea I'm sure we'll still see plenty of games developed for 11.3(even if just because they don't want to limit their potential customer base to only W10 users...).

But for bigger titles, sounds a lot like how a game performs on 'x' card will be down to how the game was programmed more than ever. I can see Nvidia and AMD having further 'battling' over getting chummy with as many of the big devs as possible. And lots more drama and accusations and conspiracy theories when the benchmarks for certain games come out.
 
fs123 said:
Yes very confusing and annoying that with all the hype about DX12 we don't have a single benchmark or game out to show it off even though it's been available in beta for months. What was Microsoft thinking.
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There's also the fact that a lot of people aren't touching W10, and won't. Given the revelations about its data-harvesting activities, there's going to be major fallout. I expected it to be bad, but I thought it'd still be more than possible to easily circumvent everything. Now, it's so hard wired to the mothership and cloud, and its 'self-healing' so developed, that really isn't possible ... and it's not just people with tinfoil hats, the IT department of a company with offices where I live (with 1500 employees around the world) were trialling W10 Enterprise on 100 machines here. They started wiping those machines clean at the beginning of this week and intend to stay a W7 / OSX (for their designers) only shop now. On the advice of their own IT department & external security consultants, and management being unsettled, they didn't feel that they could maintain security or ensure commercial confidentiality for clients with it on ANY machines. W10 (and some of the updates to 8 and 7 which they've pushed) are the best thing that has ever happened to Linux. Certainly Valve have to be rubbing their hands.

The only way I'll ever touch W10 would be having a second machine with 2 things installed on it - Steam and f.Lux. But tbh I'd rather just avoid W10 and DX12 entirely, and therefore any games which don't offer Vulkan that need it, or DX11 for ones which don't. In 3 years time, I can't imagine that I'll have a box running windows at all. It's sad that it's come to this, but in a way I'm relieved. W10 is the shove that a lot of people need to abandon MS.
 
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pmc25 said:
There's also the fact that a lot of people aren't touching W10, and won't. Given the revelations about its data-harvesting activities, there's going to be major fallout. I expected it to be bad, but I thought it'd still be more than possible to easily circumvent everything. Now, it's so hard wired to the mothership and cloud, and its 'self-healing' so developed, that really isn't possible ... and it's not just people with tinfoil hats, the IT department of a company with offices where I live (with 1500 employees around the world) were trialling W10 Enterprise on 100 machines here. They started wiping those machines clean at the beginning of this week and intend to stay a W7 / OSX (for their designers) only shop now. On the advice of their own IT department & external security consultants, and management being unsettled, they didn't feel that they could maintain security or ensure commercial confidentiality for clients with it on ANY machines. W10 (and some of the updates to 8 and 7 which they've pushed) are the best thing that has ever happened to Linux. Certainly Valve have to be rubbing their hands.

The only way I'll ever touch W10 would be having a second machine with 2 things installed on it - Steam and f.Lux. But tbh I'd rather just avoid W10 and DX12 entirely, and therefore any games which don't offer Vulkan that need it, or DX11 for ones which don't. In 3 years time, I can't imagine that I'll have a box running windows at all. It's sad that it's come to this, but in a way I'm relieved. W10 is the shove that a lot of people need to abandon MS.
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I think you're greatly overestimating this mass exodus from Windows.
 
pmc25 said:
There's also the fact that a lot of people aren't touching W10, and won't. Given the revelations about its data-harvesting activities, there's going to be major fallout. I expected it to be bad, but I thought it'd still be more than possible to easily circumvent everything. Now, it's so hard wired to the mothership and cloud, and its 'self-healing' so developed, that really isn't possible ... and it's not just people with tinfoil hats, the IT department of a company with offices where I live (with 1500 employees around the world) were trialling W10 Enterprise on 100 machines here. They started wiping those machines clean at the beginning of this week and intend to stay a W7 / OSX (for their designers) only shop now. On the advice of their own IT department & external security consultants, and management being unsettled, they didn't feel that they could maintain security or ensure commercial confidentiality for clients with it on ANY machines. W10 (and some of the updates to 8 and 7 which they've pushed) are the best thing that has ever happened to Linux. Certainly Valve have to be rubbing their hands.

The only way I'll ever touch W10 would be having a second machine with 2 things installed on it - Steam and f.Lux. But tbh I'd rather just avoid W10 and DX12 entirely, and therefore any games which don't offer Vulkan that need it, or DX11 for ones which don't. In 3 years time, I can't imagine that I'll have a box running windows at all. It's sad that it's come to this, but in a way I'm relieved. W10 is the shove that a lot of people need to abandon MS.
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4 weeks after launch windows 10 is already on 75 million pc`s and tablets. Think your very much wide of the mark of reality.
 
Seanspeed said:
I think you're greatly overestimating this mass exodus from Windows.
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It's not a mass exodus. However a bunch of would-be early adopters are in a holding pattern, and quite a lot of early adopters have rolled back to 7 or 8 (albeit due to the serious stability issues).

Developers don't like any of the **** going on with W10 and the Windows ecosystem generally.

It's all fairly significant.

I was very surprised that the company I mentioned made a quick decision to expunge W10. A month earlier, the acquaintence I know who works for them was saying how well the trial was going and staff and management liked it, and they thought they'd probably transfer most machines some time next year, rather than the usual extended update cycle that starts years after the new version is released. I raised snooping and data security issues, and he pooh-poohed them and said it was a non-factor. Seems that for them a lot changed in that month.
 
pmc25 said:
It's not a mass exodus. However a bunch of would-be early adopters are in a holding pattern, and quite a lot of early adopters have rolled back to 7 or 8 (albeit due to the serious stability issues).

Developers don't like any of the **** going on with W10 and the Windows ecosystem generally.

It's all fairly significant.

I was very surprised that the company I mentioned made a quick decision to expunge W10. A month earlier, the acquaintence I know who works for them was saying how well the trial was going and staff and management liked it, and they thought they'd probably transfer most machines some time next year, rather than the usual extended update cycle that starts years after the new version is released. I raised snooping and data security issues, and he pooh-poohed them and said it was a non-factor. Seems that for them a lot changed in that month.
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Think that company needs new IT staff. :rolleyes:
 
pmc25 said:
It's not a mass exodus. However a bunch of would-be early adopters are in a holding pattern, and quite a lot of early adopters have rolled back to 7 or 8 (albeit due to the serious stability issues).

Developers don't like any of the **** going on with W10 and the Windows ecosystem generally.

It's all fairly significant.

I was very surprised that the company I mentioned made a quick decision to expunge W10. A month earlier, the acquaintence I know who works for them was saying how well the trial was going and staff and management liked it, and they thought they'd probably transfer most machines some time next year, rather than the usual extended update cycle that starts years after the new version is released. I raised snooping and data security issues, and he pooh-poohed them and said it was a non-factor. Seems that for them a lot changed in that month.
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I get what you're saying. But lots of companies are still running XP, too. Doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be some worldwide trend. MS always know that not everybody is going to switch to their new OS, for multitudes of reasons. It's inevitable and there's nothing they can do about it.

I think we need to wait a while before we claim any of this 'significant' in any meaningful sense. Not saying you're wrong, just that you're potentially jumping the gun a bit.
 
I see Fable Legends will be available only through Windows store. Another game launcher then :(

Sorry, slightly OT but still DX12 and AMD involved :D
 
Harlequin said:
that's the issue - AMD gains a lot from DX12 whereas Nv doesn't (and thus we have this thread) - Nv tried to poo poo the game even making up such rubbish as MSAA wasn't working (when it is).
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I was starting to think I must be missing something :S

Can't believe how many people don't understand the implications of nVidia's DX11 optimisations - even people who understand the hardware of both AMD and nVidia GPUs in detail.
 
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