American Airlines CRJ700 crash in DC

Really is tragic, so close to landing, RIP to all. I know it seems to be standard procedure but having helicopters crossing active landing path and relying on visual acquisition late at night seems like a recipe for disaster.
 
From ycombinator forums, stating via instagram. Huge grain of salt, but makes the most sense as well:
I was a controller at DCA for 8 years and this is a normal operation with Helicopters using the Helicopter routes.
The problem I see is the controller asked the Helicopter if they had the CRJ in sight, but he never said WHERE HE WAS OR WHAT HE WAS DOING! The controller should have told the Helicopter that the CRJ was circling to RWY 33. The helicopter said he had him in sight, but he really had the Jet in sight that was landing on RWY 1.

Had the controller told him: Traffic ahead and to your left landing runway 33 is a CRJ report him in sight, then the helicopter crew would have LOOKED to their left and saw him. They unfortunately were looking straight ahead at a different plane.

The controller is going to take a major blame for this one unfortunately for not being more detailed. Those Helicopters literally fly directly in the path of those RWY 33 arrivals so as a controller you have to be EXACT!!!!

Another problem I see is the expectation bias. As controllers in that scenario, we want to hear the Helicopter say "traffic in sight and we will maintain Visual Separation. These Helicopter Pilots know we need to hear them say that (it's required), so they will say this just because even though they might not really have the aircraft in sight. They are just saying what we want to hear. If they don't, then we stop their forward progress or make them turn out.
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If that true above, as I said earlier in thread this wouldnt happen if military helicopters were not allowed to fly back on fourth across landing paths. I don't see the need for it unless the helicopter needs to land at the airport this was just a training flight.
 
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Things need to change now. Serious incident that shows how fragile the system is.
 
Koalaboy said:
From ycombinator forums, stating via instagram. Huge grain of salt, but makes the most sense as well:
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I don’t know if the recordings capture all of the relevant detail or if some is left out, but I didn’t hear any useful traffic information, especially for night time ops. E.g. in the UK, traffic information would be issued something like “traffic in your 10 o clock, 2 miles, left to right, 300ft above”. Issuing traffic information as is apparent on the recording leaves lots of room for misidentification, particularly at night. At night all they will see is the nav lights, strobes and maybe the landing light. It’s pretty much impossible to determine the aircraft type.
The use of ICAO standard phraseology is actively discouraged in the US because… well… they think they do it better.

bingham67 said:
If that true above, as I said earlier in thread this wouldnt happen if military helicopters were not allowed to fly back on fourth across landing paths. I don't see the need for it unless the helicopter needs to land at the airport this was just a training flight.
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It’s absolutely necessary, particularly in busy metro areas. Diverting around final approach tracks can add significant doglegs onto the planned route and can cause funnelling between the major approaches for various airports, increasing the overall mid air collision risk.
 
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bingham67 said:
If that true above, as I said earlier in thread this wouldnt happen if military helicopters were not allowed to fly back on fourth across landing paths. I don't see the need for it unless the helicopter needs to land at the airport this was just a training flight.
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I can't fathom this either, in a country the size of the US why would you do helicopter training flights at night across the tricky and very busy final approach to an airport, they may have done it problem free for years but it seems to me to just be asking for trouble.
 
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I really don’t envy the role of air traffic controllers. I’m sure it’s like any other profession where if you’ve done it for a few years and know the training/systems/processes inside and out then it’s fairly ok but the responsibility weighing down on you is huge. It’s stressful enough deploying code that could result in lost sales never mind making a bad decision that could result in 60+ deaths.

Hats off to you Scuzi(and any others)
 
He's blaming DEI... suggesting that the FAA hiring people with "Severe Intellectual and Psychiatric disabilities" is part of the problem... because obviously they were working the Air Traffic Control.

As for the night flight, they stated these aren't 'new pilot' training flights.
...the military helicopter involved in last night's collision had a "fairly experienced crew that was doing a required annual night evaluation"
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shifty_uk said:
I really don’t envy the role of air traffic controllers. I’m sure it’s like any other profession where if you’ve done it for a few years and know the training/systems/processes inside and out then it’s fairly ok but the responsibility weighing down on you is huge. It’s stressful enough deploying code that could result in lost sales never mind making a bad decision that could result in 60+ deaths.
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Exactly. Especially as, has been stated in other places, listening to the calm and collected way the traffic controller handles the situation after it happens, shows they're not flailing around in panic or incompetence.
Trump is blaming everyone that fits a political narrative.
 
Scuzi said:
The use of ICAO standard phraseology is actively discouraged in the US because… well… they think they do it better.
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In general not just aviation I've always been a little bemused by the way there is no consistency with the use of the phonetic alphabet in the US often shunning ICAO or even NATO in favour of a number of variants from the 50s - sometimes even neighbouring police departments/districts use completely different systems, etc. (though there are commonly adopted law enforcement variants).
 
Koalaboy said:
He's blaming DEI... suggesting that the FAA hiring people with "Severe Intellectual and Psychiatric disabilities" is part of the problem... because obviously they were working the Air Traffic Control.
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He actually said that? I’d get a suspension for saying what I really thought of him and his supporters.
 
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