American Bulldog

[Avenged7Fold]

Pffft, sorry they dont teach dog training in Physics

It is not about which breeds are more likely. I am a firm believer that a well brought up dog is incredibly low risk regardless of breed.

Fact is, training takes time and no parent is omnipresent. If paranoia makes you think that your child is safer with another new, big doggy roaming about because one more pooch is the difference between someone breaking in or not, then i suggest you get something more hi-tech than a walking poop machine.

Also, why are people getting dogs as a thief deterrent for the primary reason in the 21st century?

In the Philippines where there is a lot of crime and theft, you NEVER treat a guard dog like a family dog and a family dog like a guard dog. They are two different entities and a child would do well to stay away from any guard dog, even their own family's.

 

[Chojin]

I was stuck on the bus next to one last weekend. It sat there staring at me with slaver running down the side of it's mouth. It wore a BDSM style collar and its owner was an adult chav with tattoos on his knuckles. From my experience there is a stigma attached to this breed.

I do disagree that all breeds are inherently safe. They can only be conditioned to be friendly to strangers (and even their owner). Certain breeds will have a longer fuse than others - and hard coded traits can only be prevented, not disabled.

 

[DJ_Switch]

Try educating yourself on a subject before reaching a conclusion.

I would think that being directly involved in the legal process which frequently sees the prosecution of the owners of dangerous dogs, amongst other crimes, would give me quite an educated and far better informed opinion on this subject than many others in this thread.

The simple fact of the matter is that some dogs are purposefully bred for specific characteristics and sometimes those happen to be aggression and fighting prowess. Being a responsible dog owner doesn't alter that, it merely seeks to best control it. It's not the dogs fault that it was bred with such character traits but it is the fault of the owner who thinks they can control it in any given range of unforeseeable circumstances. I will not tar all owners of such dogs with the same brush however a large percentage of the people who own these dogs should not. The "arguments" and excuses from these owners is invariably the same tiresome arguments that some are giving here. Please excuse me if I'm not in the least bit sympathetic to them given the amount of times I hear the same story from someone who is more concerned about their dog and escaping prosecution than they are the safety of the general public in their vicinity.

Many of the dog owners who are prosecuted are the result of their dogs attacking other dogs and not limited to attacks on humans. Certain breeds without doubt seek to dominate other dogs and that can in turn endanger people who get caught in the middle. The same is true for dogs with a "protective" instinct which can often be triggered by a set of circumstances not warranting such responses. This is all good until the dog "protects" your child from the other child running down the street towards it. The cases involving dogs which do eventually make it to court are unsurprisingly dominated by the exact dogs you would expect and I can assure you they are not Spaniels and the like.

The owners of dangerous dogs will usually argue that the dog is not in itself the problem but rather badly trained/socialised however with also having close contact with Police Dog Units do you not find it odd that in dog trials they ended the program testing out Rottweilers as Police dogs because as a breed they weren't aggressive enough for the job compared to the current dogs? It is widely accepted that certain dog breeds have certain traits.....just not by the owners of said dogs when they're being criticised for the traits we know are often the reasons they were bought in the first place.

 

[Energize]

I'd be interested in seeing the source of that police dog trial information regarding Rottweilers.

 

[DJ_Switch]

I'd be interested in seeing the source of that police dog trial information regarding Rottweilers.

I can only find the below old article which was when the Police up here took on the Rottweiler for trials however can't see anything online about them dropping the idea due to the temperament compared to shepherds. I just had a brief look there but I'll be surprised if there's no mention of it somewhere. They did in the end go back to shepherds for their general purpose dogs however ended up having to go to abroad for them, Belgium if my memory serves me correctly.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/rottweiler-sinks-its-teeth-into-crime-1-1295777

 

[BlueMerle]

There's a lot of good back and forth in this thread. I tend to agree that socialization is a big factor in how a dog will behave. That said, here in the States, there are well documented cases of that breed, or similar, attacking and sometimes killing people.

I've yet to see a documented case of a Beagle doing that.

The real question is: "Do you want to take the chance given your children?". Are you willing to have a neighbor attacked? What about an elderly woman just walking down the street?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Well OP wants to get it mainly for security reasons, despite already having a few dogs:

I need a dog with a bit more of a presence than my current dogs mainly to act as a deterrent but obviously be a good family dog too.

Thats pretty ridiculous don't you think?

Regardless of whether breed makes more aggressive dogs or not, at the end of the day ALL dogs can be aggressive/over excited, especially before it has settled and been trained. OP already has dogs and thinks another might be the difference between a break in or not.

Get a burglar alarm if you are afraid of break ins, dont risk your child's safety because you are paranoid that your current lacklustre pooch alarms are not up to scaring away burglars.

Seriously its 2016, who in Essex thinks that guard dogs are a preferred method to protect a home, especially when you have a young child?

Why not leave a knife out for easy access so your kid can defend himself?

I mean i grew up with knives in the draw and on the table and no one got hurt... so its fine, right?

 

[spoffle]

Suggest you do a bit more reading. There's a number of accounts of them attacking people. Recently in Durham a breeder lost his arm after three of his turned on him at once.
Believe it was national news.

Use your pronouns fam.

 

[spoffle]

Pffft, sorry they dont teach dog training in Physics

It is not about which breeds are more likely. I am a firm believer that a well brought up dog is incredibly low risk regardless of breed.

Fact is, training takes time and no parent is omnipresent. If paranoia makes you think that your child is safer with another new, big doggy roaming about because one more pooch is the difference between someone breaking in or not, then i suggest you get something more hi-tech than a walking poop machine.

Also, why are people getting dogs as a thief deterrent for the primary reason in the 21st century?

In the Philippines where there is a lot of crime and theft, you NEVER treat a guard dog like a family dog and a family dog like a guard dog. They are two different entities and a child would do well to stay away from any guard dog, even their own family's.

I think for the most part that it really is about nature and nurture. I'm not a fan of dogs particularly, I like my cats, however the thing with cats is that they can be aggressive little ***** at times and it's just because they are fairly small that they don't tend to do much damage.

I really have noticed the nurture thing though, I've got my current cat about 3 years ago. She is a large maine c o o n. She was incredibly aggressive and angry when I first got her. Now with proper nurture, she's an overly loving oaf that thrives on contact and affection.

I think this is because she was neglected a lot by her previous owners. When we got her she had some horrible knotts in her fur and they stayed for at least a year. I'd groom her and cut the nots out that were completely impossible to break down, and the when she realised she was being looked after, given attention and affection the knotts went away and her aggression and anger reduced alongside the knotts going away.

I genuinely think she was suffering from depression from negligence due to not being given attention by her previous owners. She's like a completely different cat from when we got her.

I know cats aren't dogs, but I believe most domesticated animals behave depending on how they're treated rather than this deep seated instinct to attack and harm.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

If you're bringing it up from a puppy in an already established family I can't see you having a problem.

 

[Tefal]

Seriously its 2016, who in Essex thinks that guard dogs are a preferred method to protect a home

literally cannot think of a better method.

 

[Sirrel Squirrel]

Well OP wants to get it mainly for security reasons, despite already having a few dogs:



Thats pretty ridiculous don't you think?

Regardless of whether breed makes more aggressive dogs or not, at the end of the day ALL dogs can be aggressive/over excited, especially before it has settled and been trained. OP already has dogs and thinks another might be the difference between a break in or not.

Get a burglar alarm if you are afraid of break ins, dont risk your child's safety because you are paranoid that your current lacklustre pooch alarms are not up to scaring away burglars.

Seriously its 2016, who in Essex thinks that guard dogs are a preferred method to protect a home, especially when you have a young child?

Why not leave a knife out for easy access so your kid can defend himself?

I mean i grew up with knives in the draw and on the table and no one got hurt... so its fine, right?

An alarm is going to do jack where I live. No one would hear it and if it was linked up to a monitoring service it'd take a good 15-25 mins for the police to get to the house.

 

[kiel367]

the scaremongering is real in here lol, just because its an american bulldog, people seem to think they are all vicious an will turn on you, iv had the pleasure of knowin a few american bulldogs who were absolutely fantastic dogs, amazing with kids (even newborns) yes they can be vicious, in the right surrounding, its almost as comical as the staffie/pitbul ban, cos theyre "dangerous" animals, no theyre not, its the idiot chavs making them dangerous

 

[dowie]

the scaremongering is real in here lol, just because its an american bulldog, people seem to think they are all vicious an will turn on you, iv had the pleasure of knowin a few american bulldogs who were absolutely fantastic dogs, amazing with kids (even newborns) yes they can be vicious, in the right surrounding, its almost as comical as the staffie/pitbul ban, cos theyre "dangerous" animals, no theyre not, its the idiot chavs making them dangerous

no their large, powerful jaws make them dangerous

and people aren't saying they're all vicious and will turn on you but rather than if they do (given that dogs can be unpredictable) then the consequences are more devastating

it is quite a simple point (which is also illustreated well in the stats for deaths from dog attacks) but for some reason apologists like you don't seem to be able to grasp it

 

[StonedPenguin]

In December last year, We found this chap wondering around our street stinking to high heaven, Skinny and dangerously dehydrated.,
We took him in, Informed the dog warden, He came round to scan for a chip and put his mug shot online.

no one claimed him so we have him permanently. This is him the day he turned up and then 6 months later..

We believe him to be American bulldog X Staffie X something else.. Any ideas?

 

[kiel367]

as i stated, it is usually humans which end up making them dangerous, through either neglect or abuse i.e chavs, scallies an such who own these animals to look "hard" i can grasp the fact that statistically they do have a bad rep, but i can honestly say, little dogs are more aggressive than big dogs 90% of the time, i used to walk 2 american bulldogs, one male, one female, and they never bothered with other dogs, it was always the little jack Russell's and other little ankle biters that went for those, just sharing my personal experience with them

 

[dowie]

as i stated, it is usually humans which end up making them dangerous, through either neglect or abuse i.e chavs, scallies an such who own these animals to look "hard" i can grasp the fact that statistically they do have a bad rep,

it was the fact you didn't seem to grasp the arguments being made that I was referring to (either that or you ignored them and decided to make your own straw man) - you mentioned scaremongering then pointed out that people think they're vicious when the posts objecting to the idea in this thread don't present that argument but rather highlight that their physical characteristics make them dangerous. Like I said it is a simple point but you seem to have missed it and again are arguing that they're dangerous through neglect etc.. While that can increase the risk that they will attack they're dangerous regardless simply because of the characteristics they've inherited/the way they've been bred.

 

[JAMIE_CORTEZ]

I can only find the below old article which was when the Police up here took on the Rottweiler for trials however can't see anything online about them dropping the idea due to the temperament compared to shepherds. I just had a brief look there but I'll be surprised if there's no mention of it somewhere. They did in the end go back to shepherds for their general purpose dogs however ended up having to go to abroad for them, Belgium if my memory serves me correctly.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/rottweiler-sinks-its-teeth-into-crime-1-1295777

That's because it has nothing to do with Rottweiler temperament, and everything to do with the fact that GSD and Malinois are more versatile better to train (eaiser) and weigh less on average.
Do try to remember the handler may not be a dog expert when first joining the dog section, they will have to lift the dog over various obstacles during duty thus a rottie is a little less practical.

As to the OP, GSD make fantastic family dogs and are protective of the home and family. Wouldn't recommend anything else.

 

[Zethor]

I would think that being directly involved in the legal process which frequently sees the prosecution of the owners of dangerous dogs, amongst other crimes, would give me quite an educated and far better informed opinion on this subject than many others in this thread.

No that's not an informed opinion, it's an opinion based on limited personal experience and anecdotal evidence.
The opinion I outlined is based on evidence:

These data suggest that although general characteristics of dogs and owners may be a factor at population level, it would be inappropriate to make assumptions about an individual animal's risk of aggression to people based on characteristics such as breed.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815911300292X

"The substantial within-breed variation…suggests that it is inappropriate to make predictions about a given dog's propensity for aggressive behavior based solely on its breed." While breed is a factor, the impact of other factors relating to the individual animal (such as training method, sex and neutering status), the target (e.g. owner versus stranger), and the context in which the dog is kept (e.g. urban versus rural) prevent breed from having significant predictive value in its own right.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/L...of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx

 

[Avenged7Fold]

It would be hard to argue that the child would be just as safe or safe with the dog than without, which is what this should boil down to since the dog is about security.

The dog would need to seem aggressive to be an effective guard dog. I imagine raising a dog to seem aggressive, yet be safe around children, still carries its own risk when there is a very young child.