An insight into my obsession

JRS said:
True, but they were only dangerous in the same way that early model Corvairs were dangerous - i.e. when driven by someone not making allowances for the laws of physics and how they act on a rear engined car with *fairly* primitive suspension geometry. And my thoughts on the Corvairs supposed defficiencies have been noted on here before - as with the 911's reputation, some of it is true but there's an awful lot of exageration thrown into the mix :) At any rate, it's not necessarily the car that's at fault. In fact, there are many roads where the tail-happy nature of the early 911s is a) an advantage speed-wise as you can rotate it into bends effortlessly and b) really very fun indeed.



Things got better when the Carrera RS came along in '73 (I think?), and then the first of the 930s. But they've gotten much worse again. The car just isn't simple any more. The suspension is too clever, the handling is too sanitised, damn thing just isn't 'dangerous' enough :(
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But even with the likes of the Mac, and definately the Veyron, manufacturers have to build their cars to suit the majority.
The early 911's were fantastic cars, there is no denying that, but as you said you have to always bear in mind the pitfalls of the design, to get the best from the car, and that instantly rules out the vast majority of drivers, as without a lot of training or some very almostr inbred, inate sense of what you are doing behind a steering wheel, then the vast majority of drivers just would not have a clue as to how to change their driving behaviour to suit the car.

As I said even the Mac being NASP is in some ways building it for the majority, they could have gone much more to the edge with handling properties and power characteristics of the engine buy using FI, but there would have been a couple of scare stories in the media from the first buyers throwing their precious through the hedge, and sales would have dried up instantly, or at the very least the design would have had to been compromised so tremendously as to take away the very being of the car, just like the 911 has.
 
Mclarenf1gtr.jpg


vs

veyron.jpg


(guess where I went yesterday :))

Both fantastic cars, but as has already been said, different cars designed for different purposes. Not been lucky enough to drive either of them :(, and probably not likely to ever get the chance either, but if I had to choose one, it would depend on the location. Trackwise, it would have to be the F1, road usage it would be the Veyron.

Stunning machines though.
 
the thing that really sets the Mac apart for me is that it's 100% no compromise. apart from paint and trim materials every Veyron is the same, but every Mac is different from the next one.
the seat moulding and column positioning for every driver, the fact you can specify any one of 16.8 milion colours for your paintjob, you can have pretty much anything you want fitted to the car...all these details plus the car itself underline what i think and what Entai said.
namely that it's unlikely we will ever see a car like the Mac ever again simply because the accountants WILL have their say and make the manufacturer cut a corner or two.

small attentions to detail are what tell you that you have something special.
on every Mac is a plaque with Mclaren race victories displayed on it. if they win anymore races after you buy yours, the next time it's in for service they have the plaque engraved with these new additions.

when i was politely told (TWICE) that i wouldn't be allowed behind the wheel i can honestly say it was among the most disappointing moments of my life.

:(
 
The_Dark_Side said:
i'd define a true drivers car to be one that didn't need the driver to actually be a professional in order to A)make him feel like one and B)deliver serious performance.
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Would you consider the Veyron a true drivers car?
 
PMKeates said:
Would you consider the Veyron a true drivers car?
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No, because it isn't although to be fair that's not what it's designed to be.
the Veyron is a brutally fast GT car, something you can use to cross countries like you can with no other car.
saying the Veyron isn't a drivers car is as disrespectful as saying the M5 isn't a sports car, even though it's faster than some bona fide sports cars.
 
the closest I have come to driving a 'true' 911 has been a 914 at an airfield for 30 minutes.

that said, its owner also has a skoda rapid which is mildly tuned (around 100hp on big carbs and trick internals) which he says handles identically.

I've spanked his rapid (fnar) a couple of times and had him screaming "dont lift! DON'T ****ING LIFT!" from the passenger seat.

I found both it and the 914 hesitant on initial turn-in but then once it had finally stopped buggering around and the rear end had decided where it was going you could power through.

luckily I drive like a pensioner.

*n
 
PMKeates said:
I just read your definition and thought the Veyron fit :p
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I know, but in my defence I was replying to a point and not setting out my stall on the definition. I'd expect the Veyron to be pretty competant as the car has so much power on tap it easily has the potential to cause the driver problems. for me, the chassis (and by this I mean the suspension+transmission+brakes+cooling system) are by far the remarkable features of the car. the engine is impressive but not overly so IMHO.
the aim to produce a drivers car lead to the Mac ticking more boxes than any other car...hell you even sit in the middle as its THE best place to sit. no FI to allow better throttle control, no servo to reduce feel from the braking system...the list goes on.
FWIW I love the Veyron (even its appearance), I just think in automotive terms its a sledgehammer whereas the Mac is a surgeons scalpel.
 
Dolph said:
....Trackwise, it would have to be the F1, road usage it would be the Veyron.

Stunning machines though.
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It's interesting that most people think of the F1 as a track car. IIRC Gordon Murray designed it to be used on the road.

Anyway, I would (if I could) get an F1. If not, my second choice would be a Ferrari 288GTO. The Veyron doesn't get a look in.
 
Tomsk said:
It's interesting that most people think of the F1 as a track car. IIRC Gordon Murray designed it to be used on the road.

Anyway, I would (if I could) get an F1. If not, my second choice would be a Ferrari 288GTO. The Veyron doesn't get a look in.
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I don't think of the F1 as a track car as such, just that knowing what many people say about it, I would be much more reluctant to push an F1 on the road than a veyron. I'd ultimately prefer to drive the F1, but it's horses for courses.
 
The_Dark_Side said:
I know, but in my defence I was replying to a point and not setting out my stall on the definition. I'd expect the Veyron to be pretty competant as the car has so much power on tap it easily has the potential to cause the driver problems.
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I'll agree that with so much power it could be absolutely lethal, but:

It has rather wide tyres (265/365, front/rear). It's also pretty heavy at around 1900kg, and at speed the aerodynamics will help push those tyres in to the tarmac as well.

A fully electronically controlled engine mated to an intelligent computer operated automatic transmission. All mated to a computer controlled four wheel drive system for excellent traction at any time or load. It also has massive braking capability enhanced by a full complement of electronic stability control systems including braking distribution, emergency braking management, cornering braking control, skid control, launch control etc. etc.

For ease of drive, the only possible issue I can see is weight distribution - which I can't quantify at the moment. On the whole, though, I can't think of any other supercar that could be as forgiving? In fact, it will be more forgiving than most other "driver's cars" that do not have it's control technology!
 
PMKeates said:
For ease of drive, the only possible issue I can see is weight distribution - which I can't quantify at the moment. On the whole, though, I can't think of any other supercar that could be as forgiving? In fact, it will be more forgiving than most other "driver's cars" that do not have it's control technology!
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exactly, and it's here where accepted wisdom introduces the word "uninvolving".
the Veyron has it all, the Mac? almost none.

that's the point.
 
Another way to look at the Veyron/Mac debate is to look at who they let drive each one for the TV programmes.

They get Tiff Needell an ex F1 driver, with pretty good car control, (all be it an ego the size of Texas), to put the Mac through it's paces, and he has trouble getting it to do well.

The Veyron on the other hand, they give to "Captain Slow", as they know anyone or their grandmother could get the best out of the Veyron without any hassle at all, thanks to all the various electronic systems.
 
Keylow said:
How would you all compare a Mac to a Koenigsegg CCX/R? I'm guessing it is more of a drivers car than the Veyron.
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everything, and i don't use the word lightly, plays second fiddle to the Mac's single mindedness.
let's be honest though, all the cars we're talking about are amazing machines.
whichever does the least well is a bit like saying who's the poorest at the Microsoft directors meeting.
 
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The_Dark_Side said:
let's be honest though, all the cars we're talking about are amazing machines.
whichever does the least well is a bit like saying who's the poorest at the Microsoft directors meeting.
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What a wonderful image :D

I suspect a Veyron would suit me better, but it's a bit academic, as Anne has already promised me a DB9 when she wins the lottery :) - now all she needs to do is buy some tickets :eek:

Alan Woodford
 
R124/LA420 said:
Class video's. :cool:
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slightly OT but i thought i'd add that i love watching Quentin presenting. you can REALLY tell when something impresses him and there are several moments like that in the vids i posted in post#1.
 
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