Success is subjective, success quantified in money is superficial.
And the gravy train rolls on . . .
- Thread starter stockhausen
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I agree, however one doesn't tend to get to the positions they have been in by being generally unsuccessful. I'm definitely not talking about the money side of things, as MPs make relatively little money. I think to argue that they aren't successful is a bit odd, they quite obviously had to put a considerable amount of effort in to get to where they have, do you think the did so by accident?
Soldato
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Except this time its true.
Oh no we arent this time either if you are rich, famous or an idiot. So same as last time really then.
Caporegime
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So you reckon Boris and his brother got to where they are by being successful.
Or more realistically his dad always had it in the bag for them since they were born? He's always placed in a safe seat. He went to the old boys club school, etc.
I like Boris. He was absolutely fantastic on one of my favourite shows have I got news for you.
He took that to even greater heights when he rugby tackled a 5 year old, clattered into someone in a charity football game and then assaulted some Japanese kid.
Honestly I think he's worth every penny for the hilarity he has brought. He could be earning 1000 times more as a comedian. I honestly miss him not being on have I got news for you. He was my favourite on there and genuinely couldn't wait to see him back on there between appearances.
I never said they didn't have leg ups from their family's connections and/or wealth, but fundamentally yes, I do think that they were/are successful. I understand that "success" is subjective, but it's insane to me that anyone could label these leading politicians as "unsuccessful", which is really another word for failure. Becoming a successful politician isn't something that's particularly easy, and it's mind boggling to me that it some are suggesting it's a "job" one sort of settles for as an easy life. It's not like politics isn't competitive! None of it is uncontested, and these individuals have had to outperform their peers (in one way or another) consistently enough to get to the positions they've been in. That isn't to say everything they do is amazing, but to moan about them attaining high paying positions, as if they've just sauntered through life effortlessly, is nothing short of wilful ignorance IMO.
Without those money, our financial institutes would be bankrupt and we would be like Iceland back in 2008.Gordon Brown was awesome back in the day, selling off half the country's gold reserves at the bottom of the market
if you are going to dig up history at least put it in context.
teachers. You forgot about teachers.
The Bank of England warned against it and were totally against the decision, I have shares in a gold exploration company and had a small interest over the years, there is some interesting discussion to be had over this and the 18 billion loss to date had he held the gold, but I don't think I will discuss with you as you probably won't grasp the salient points
Here's the context - It was sold between 1999 and 2002 at a time when our financial institutes were doing fine despite the Dot-Com crash and the Gold price was around it's lowest. If it had been sold during the 2008 crisis instead, when we really did need money, we would have netted 400% more from the sale.
Here's a few articles from various financial sources across the political spectrum (to remove any political aspects) just to remind you of how poor the decision was at the time -
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48177767 - "Twenty years ago on Tuesday, then Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown said he was selling tonnes of Britain's gold reserves. Trouble was, his timing could barely have been worse."
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/apr/12/gold-gordon-brown-sell-off - "This means the sell-off may well have been the most expensive deal ever done by a British chancellor, costing the exchequer (and benefiting grateful gold buyers) between £6bn and £7bn – roughly twice as much as Black Wednesday."
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...nomy-analysis-financial-bullion-a8909611.html - "Gordon Brown’s decision to sell of half of Britain’s gold reserves 20 years ago at the bottom of the market has been billed as the worst financial decision of all time."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephe...dons-bizarre-bullion-blunder/?sh=667bc6bb309c - "Gordon Brown demonstrated a complete failure of understanding how markets worked."
https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gol...uk-history-20-years-brown-sold-britains-gold/ - "given the benefits of gold as a diversification of assets it’s hard to forgive the then Chancellor for the oversight, and he was warned."
Even with the benefit of hindsight there are few politically neutral articles which praise Brown for his decision, although some can be found.
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In fairness, although there is an argument that Gordon Brown made a huge mistake, the idea of a country basing its currency around hoarding shiny metal bars is pretty damned anachronistic and I believe that Brown was sucking up to the Americans who wanted the US Dollar (which they controlled) to replace gold.
Of course, the idea of handing out billions to your friends to build HS2 or a third runway at Heathrow whilst proclaiming your commitment to fighting climate change rather than investing in actual individuals in the NHS, Teachers and the Police has absolutely nothing to do with the gravy train and giving bungs to your mates
Soldato
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Politics for most is always a stepping stone to glory . Inside knowledge of how the government work will always be paid very well .
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I can accept organisations paying for genuine knowledge and experience.
What bothers me is people being paid in return for "past favours delivered" and the "Old boys" and "Magic handshake" networks - all of that can in my opinion reasonably be described as corruption.
Politics fail many ordinary folk, the elite generally look after their own success, a lot of it is just plain greed.
Seriously? The basic annual salary for an MP from 1 April 2020 is £81,932. And I bet they have many other perks. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if any of them have done a proper hard days work in their life. selfish success.
Soldato
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stockhausen having another leftie rant. Oh joy.
Public sector workers i.e. local authority civil servants, library staff, admin etc go into it because its a secure job for life with very little effort required in my experience with extremely good terms and conditions i.e. sick pay, pensions, etc etc and as for wages it used to be said you went into public sector for the job security and perks but with poor wages but thats no longer true wages are comparable these days. And could you be police officer? They're well trained and academic qualifications aren't everything. Something that unfortunately in this country isn't recognised you either have an academic qualification or you're nothing.
Compared to similar conditions in industry thats low which is why so many of them take lucrative jobs in finance etc when their time in politics is over. Compared with local council chief executive officers on 150k a year its peanuts.
Public sector workers i.e. local authority civil servants, library staff, admin etc go into it because its a secure job for life with very little effort required in my experience with extremely good terms and conditions i.e. sick pay, pensions, etc etc and as for wages it used to be said you went into public sector for the job security and perks but with poor wages but thats no longer true wages are comparable these days. And could you be police officer? They're well trained and academic qualifications aren't everything. Something that unfortunately in this country isn't recognised you either have an academic qualification or you're nothing.
Compared to similar conditions in industry thats low which is why so many of them take lucrative jobs in finance etc when their time in politics is over. Compared with local council chief executive officers on 150k a year its peanuts.
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On a corruption tangent...in the high medieval period in England corruption in government positions was endemic. So new positions were created which paid nothing other than necessary expenses incurred while performing the duties and which were only open to wealthy men with a significant income from other sources. Who (it was hoped) would not be corrupt as they would have no need to be and who would do the jobs as a service to the country. Maybe some of them did. Maybe.
Yeah, relatively speaking, they're not particularly high earners. The MPs we're talking about almost certainly would be able to extract more earnings from never having gone in to politics.
A "proper hard day's work"... Such as what? Just because someone doesn't do manual labour doesn't mean they don't deserve to be compensated appropriately.
Soldato
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Oh, come on. The police, particularly at lower levels, have a very difficult job, handling stressful and violent situations and often mental health issues that fall through the gaps of a stretched system. I wouldn't do their job for that money. Would you?
Nurses are well-paid for doing a difficult and technical job that is emotionally draining.
And doctors are overpaid? In comparison to what?
Most people I know see those jobs as hard work.
Yep. Lots of people hide their hatred and envy for the rich and successful, behind a facade of “caring for the poor”.
“I’d happily pay more tax”.
So do it. Nothing stopping you donating to HMRC every month.
“Oh well <insert excuse here>”.