Soldato
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- 4 Feb 2018
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Completely missing the point but on purpose I suspect.
And the gravy train rolls on . . .
- Thread starter stockhausen
- Start date
Your experience? What experience is that, then?
People in our team* are working unpaid overtime most days, earn a fraction of what they could up country in a private context, and work bloody hard.
We've had pay freezes for years and after it ended we had 2% for a couple years, followed by another pay freeze thanks to Corona.
Also the generous perks and conditions were scrapped years ago. New employees don't get any of that, and haven't done for years. Sure the people who got in 20 years ago are probably in a different boat. And the people who got in even before that probably had the best deal.
Being a local public servant these days is anything but cushy or well paid.
Most departments have lost so much funding they've cut to the bone. Many heads of departments have been close to breakdown point just wondering how they'll keep essential services going. Wages have gone down, believe me. Why don't you try joining and see how cushy and set-for-life and overpaid we are today.. Those days are gone, well and truly.
*not claiming this refers to me personally.
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But it doesn't work like that does it? Minister for A, B or C doesn't have to have experience or skills at A, B or C and often moves from one to the other. They're managers. They don't need to know how to do the job. Just manage the people that do. Push through a few nice deals for their private school mates and they're set for life after they leave. Or am I just being cynical?
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Soldato
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- 13 Nov 2006
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- 4,245
- Location
- Inverkip
In Scotland it's the Labour Party who are condemned for their gravy train MPs who make the cushy little move from Westminster to the House Of Lords and strut their stuff in the ermine gowns. Socialists? Don't make me laugh.
- Joined
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You probably, perhaps deliberately, misinterpret the disgust that "Lots of people" have for the behaviour of MPs.
This disgust may have something to do with people's ignoring the "do as I say,not as I do" guidance offered by people for whom they have no respect and who they simply don't trust.
In my experience, many of the people who you so dismissively describe as hiding behind "a facade of caring for the poor” do actually offer practical support for others less fortunate than themselves where they can; they don't "envy the rich and successful", they despise their arrogance, ignorance, greed, selfishness and unquestioning sense of entitlement.
I work in the private sector and have had zero payrises for the last 3 years. Plus a pay cut this year due to the Rona. It's almost as if greater forces are at work, like say a macro economy with millions of workers?
ONS seems to disagree with you on the pay front.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan.../articles/publicandprivatesectorearnings/2019
The only place where a divide seems to form is for high skill/knowledge jobs. Not surprising given the supply/demand of people who are genuinely high skilled or knowledgeable in a specialist field.
For low skilled jobs though? Public sector is where it's at.
The private sector (on average) didn't have the pay freezes and capped pay for as many years as public. That's why the "pay gap" kept closing in favour of the private sector. (As your own article pointed out, for IT type jobs and other skilled work the private sector already pays more than public. So the gap has been widening in favour of private in those sectors).
But anyhow, local govt funding is cut right to the bone now, and central govt isn't even done making cuts.
I hope people enjoy having fewer and lower quality public services, whilst at the same time being terrified that we're all on the gravy train at your expense.
The gravy train is central govt, not the cash-starved local councils struggling to keep the lights on.
As for the perks the other poster talked about... what perks? I got a free lanyard, that's something, I guess..
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2006
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- 38,367
I've posted about this before.
I think HMRC since 2008 had something like -15% wage rise in that time and cuts to their benefits and perks. During that time other public sector departments like police, politicians, NHS staff and teachers have had multiple large increases. Dwp did get a large increase 2-3 years back but they had to sign another contract with severely diminished terms and work an additional hour per week. So it wasn't a rise at all. The extra hour paid for most of it and losing all the other benefits I'd say it was actually over the long term another wage loss.
Pension was cut drastically, they lost 1-2 days of leave depending on the contracts and lost sick pay too same happened with HMRC.
Also the rules changed regarding sick leave meaning if you were off sick for more than 2 weeks it was a black mark on your record. Even if you got cancer, hit by a bus.
I've said this before the tax inspectors investigating large businesses. I'm talking businesses with minimum monthly turnover of £50 million and some going into trillions and I'm not joking when I say trillions per month are paid £30k a year. Just think about that.
They are specialists within their fields and up against large tax teams earning 5 times as much and with far less work on their plates.
Yet the public complain about taxes, state of roads, NHS being underfunded, etc. Yet treat the people bringing the money in to fund everything with distain.
Realistically speaking to undo all the damage would require 50% pay rises to all those working there SO grade and below. However they will be given 10-15% in exchange for diminished contracts and benefits and no future promises that wages will remain above inflation.
In the past 13 years the largest increase afforded to them was 0.5% and they were told by the government committee any additional would need to be funded by themselves. Bare in mind during the past 13 years there was several years of 0% given.
When wage rises are given out in the public sector it's very much only given to the popular ones. Police, NHS, teachers and themselves the politicians. There isn't a process like they have where an independent review panel makes the suggestion. The government have their own panel which does so.
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This isn't exactly related to the Gravy Train on which Senior Politicians (of every flavour) travel around in the secure knowledge that they will be alright Jack.
I don't know any members of the Police so can't comment on them. However, I do know quite a few Doctors and teachers and I am well aware that they are uncertain about having chosen the right "vocation". I know of two Junior Doctors who having spent years in training and getting qualified have given it all up to work in the City; they say that they will be happy to earn more money and not to have to suffer the abuse and pressure that seems to be normal nowadays in the NHS. I know quite a few GPs and Teachers who can't wait to be able to retire.
I am not socially acquainted with any Politicians, the nearest social contact I have had with my local MP has been at Christmas. She seems genuinely dedicated to trying to help her constituents and is well aware of my attitude to her Lords and Masters and whilst understandably diplomatic I suspect that she probably shares my cynicism about the motivations of some of them.
So he's a manager. That's what a manager does. That's what he did as CoE, managed a group of people. It's exactly the kind of skill set they look for.....in any management job. No wonder he has a decent job - from what I can see on wikipedia:
Special advisor to Agriculture, food & fisheries
Speechwriter and political secretary
Member of Parliament
Shadow Chancellor (5 years)
Chancellor of the exchequer (6 years)
Newspaper editor
That's one hell of a rap sheet.
He and his government only imposed austerity and Brexit on us, both economically very damaging. They also rewarded those who crashed the economy and allowed them to claim huge bonuses for failure when instead they should have been facing the four walls of a prison cell (to be fair to them they did put in new criminal legislation for reckless behaviour but it was not retroactively applied).
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Exactly, you cannot solve systemic problems with individual action.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2009
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- 8,101
Lol. All the council sites I visit/worked in. Working contract at the moment and I really wish I could get back onto the public sector payroll pay and conditions were way better. And that does refer to me personally. I don't think public sector workers realise what the real world is like they really are living in a bubble.
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I seem to remember some kind of 'vote' about brexit
Yes, but Cameron put no safeguards in place, had no plan if he lost the referendum and ran away once he did lose it. Also, not making it a double referendum process, as Rees-Mogg himself suggested at one point, meant we couldn't hold the Leave side to account for the Withdrawal Agreement being totally different to what was promised therefore giving them carte blanche to tell us a pack of lies and promise the world with no accountability.
I first came across this when I started working. The boss was an Oxford graduate and I soon discovered he was a part of a circle of friends who came from his college, who kept on handing each other contracts for work. They just lived in a different world in that they were paying each other more in a day than most people earn in a year and this applied to the contracts they were getting from other companies and the government. Gravy train? Their railway was private, First Class, and the average person has no idea what goes on.
This is true. They all do. They all get multiple directorships and so on. Even the far left as usually screaming rich. It's not so much a Tory thing as an elite ruling class thing. Even in parties and individuals who claim to be against such things, it persists.
Oh right, it's not that there wasn't a vote it's that there wasn't two votes to safeguard in case people don't vote the way others want.
So you're happy that we are not in the Single Market even though Brexiteers promised in the referendum that we would be? As a result British businesses are going to the wall. I think it's a disgrace that they got away with this con job and I make no bones about it.