I thought that was dependant on hardware, which invalidates it as far as I am concerned.
Android vs Windows Phones
- Thread starter knowlton
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I thought that was dependant on hardware, which invalidates it as far as I am concerned.
its the same as what apple have done thus far.
absolutely- my original point is that a 3gs has stood the test of time much better than an htc hero. I would suggest that this is because apple release 1 phone a year and consider old hardware with new software releases. 2 years on, the 3gs remains a very capable phone.
the hero is crap now. Everything about it bugs me (this is with me having the option to tweak it). Googles' early phone support is disappointing in itself and something apple should be praised for.
If you take phones which cant be tweaked (win 7 phones) and then introduce the possibility of multiple hardware combinations emerging over the next 2 years (unlike apple), my opinion is that the software would start supporting the latest and greatest at the cost of the older phones (like android with the hero). However, you wont be able to tweak the older phone to try and remedy the performance.
On the other hand and debunking my own argument, phones' ability to access the internet is now approaching a desktop experience in terms of speed. The hero was crippled because it was so far off this. It could be that though current gen phones may be hopelessly outdated and forgotten in 2 years, their core ability to access data efficiently will never be compromised. As such, there is no need to worry at all!
The Hero Vs 3GS is a good/bad comparison depending how you look, on the surface yes the release dates were basically the same and the Hero is utterly destroyed in terms of hardware, doesn't even come close, but for what it's worth there's a bit more to the story, both in terms of history and HTC being lazy and also for the future...
History:
HTC release the G1/Dream in October 2008, this was the Qualcomm MSM720x processor, 192Mb Ram, 256Mb ROM.
Then the Magic/Sapphire in April 2009, this was the Qualcomm MSM720x processor with 192 or 288Mb ram depending on area and 512Mb ROM
June 2009 sees the Hero, this was the Qualcomm MSM720x processor with 288Mb ram and 512Mb rom
See any similarities? HTC being utterly lazy and re-releasing the same hardware over the space of almost a year, a different comparison could be G1 Vs 3G (non-S), which I think is a lot closer in terms of software, but that's not that important.
Future-ish:
Even by the time the iPhone 4 was released the hardware specs weren't really all that impressive in comparison to high end Android phones, highlight in pure hardware terms was the high ppi of the screen, that's about it.
Now we've got the Sensation and SGS2 both of which are very well spec'd hardware, and the iPhone 5 according to rumours isn't going to get a massive step forward from what we've already got (A5 clocked at 1GHz in iPad2 would imply ~8-900MHz A5 for the phone, obviously pure guesswork but that would put it on the backfoot already). Because of this reversal in hardware I don't expect phones like the SGS2 to suffer really over the course of an 18, or even 24 month contract...
I'll be honest, I'm not really impressed, the only thing I like the look of is the fact that you can aggregate different message sources into one stream.
Either way though, I honestly think the WP7 UI looks/feels completely outdated, unnecessary, unfamiliar and inconsistent. Half of the time if feels like I'm browsing a WAP page and the other half it feels like I'm browsing a large format webpage with no styling.
What they seem to have done is to remove most of the 'user interface' and display the content of the feature or program in simple text or image format on a mainly black background.
The main problem with this is not that it's provably worse than iphone or Android interfaces, the problem is that it's not provably better. You're not getting any payoff for going for this unconventional garish interface.
Further to that the extremely minimal interface does not make good use of phone screens, iphones and Androids have nice icons, backgrounds and widgets. WP7 has a lot of black and solid colours and fonts are generally quite large.
My god I am ranting. But I don't think I'm alone, whether people are thinking this consciously or subconsciously people are thinking it, because they're not buying into it.
With the way Windows 7 operates by aggregating and presenting your information it tends to feel a little underwhelming until you have some data and content on the device that is meaningful to you tbh. I don't think it's designed to be "flash", rather clear and easy to get to your content/people/data which for me it does well.
I couldn't go back to an old fashioned interface with page after page of 5x4 grid of static app icons now. Although I like the functionality of my other halfs iPhone 4 the UI feels distinctly dated. Android although undoubtedly powerful I just found disappointing in much the same way I found Linux the first time I tried it. I'm sure geeks love it, and if I put hours into it I'd get it how I liked it, but ultimately it left me with a feeling of "meh, is that what all the fuss was about?".
I prefer the Apple and Windows phone model though rather than a hobby but I can appreciate some like tinkering with Android much like people around here tend to tinker with PCs
I can't help but feel that being free to OEMs has something to do with Androids success as well, I do wonder if one day there's going to be a sting in the tail with Google in general though although I don't suppose you can knock having cheaper smartphones in the mean time
I couldn't go back to an old fashioned interface with page after page of 5x4 grid of static app icons now. Although I like the functionality of my other halfs iPhone 4 the UI feels distinctly dated. Android although undoubtedly powerful I just found disappointing in much the same way I found Linux the first time I tried it. I'm sure geeks love it, and if I put hours into it I'd get it how I liked it, but ultimately it left me with a feeling of "meh, is that what all the fuss was about?".
I prefer the Apple and Windows phone model though rather than a hobby but I can appreciate some like tinkering with Android much like people around here tend to tinker with PCs
I can't help but feel that being free to OEMs has something to do with Androids success as well, I do wonder if one day there's going to be a sting in the tail with Google in general though although I don't suppose you can knock having cheaper smartphones in the mean time
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^ I agree with that. Metro UI is great and the easiest smartphone OS to use. We've got something for everyone atm, (including BB and webOS hopefully)
That's unfair tbh, the MSM7xxx was Qualcomms top SoC until they finished Snapdragon for late 09/early 10 (6 months behind TI/Samsung's 65nm cortex A8) A better comparison would be the Nexus 1/Desire What would you prefer, a N1/Desire running 2.2.3 or 3GS on iOS 4?
HTC were just a small OEM making phones from boggo/off the shelf parts back then (you can still see this in phones like the Sensation, they can't joint fund a state of the art IPS factory with LG just yet) and Android was still a geeky unknown 
That's unfair tbh, the MSM7xxx was Qualcomms top SoC until they finished Snapdragon for late 09/early 10 (6 months behind TI/Samsung's 65nm cortex A8) A better comparison would be the Nexus 1/Desire
What would you prefer, a N1/Desire running 2.2.3 or 3GS on iOS 4? HTC were just a small OEM making phones from boggo/off the shelf parts back then (you can still see this in phones like the Sensation, they can't joint fund a state of the art IPS factory with LG just yet
) and Android was still a geeky unknown 
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TBH with you OP, although I quite like the look of WP7 and its UI, I'd also say Android is the name of the game these days. Not because iOS is less capable, but because I like the ability to be able to use my phone for stuff not approved by the manufacturer and install applications which Apple doesn't approve of. Google can ban apps from their market, but they can't stop you installing them via other means. Plus, if you decide to root and/or install custom ROMs (which admittedly is becoming harder and harder as the years go by) you're not locked out of parts of the phone's core functionality like you are with Apple.
Microsoft have started out being fairly friendly towards modders and hackers in the WP7 community, but it remains to be seen how that'll play out. I'm sure the OS will be a viable contender soon (I'd argue it already is, since current handsets will almost certainly get an update to Mango, which is something you can't be guaranteed when you guy an Android phone), but the problem is with the Nokia titan entering the game I think most manufacturers will hedge their bets and not bet big on it until they see what Nokia does. If I were Samsung or HTC, and I had heard the rumour that was floating about a few days ago that MS is negotiating to buy Nokia's phone division, I'd certainly have second thoughts about investing in developing another phone for WP7... So personally I'd wait and see what the first batch of the next gen phones will be. You don't NEED to upgrade as soon as your contract ends, do you? New customer deals are usually better than retention deals these days, so you're not locked in.
Microsoft have started out being fairly friendly towards modders and hackers in the WP7 community, but it remains to be seen how that'll play out. I'm sure the OS will be a viable contender soon (I'd argue it already is, since current handsets will almost certainly get an update to Mango, which is something you can't be guaranteed when you guy an Android phone), but the problem is with the Nokia titan entering the game I think most manufacturers will hedge their bets and not bet big on it until they see what Nokia does. If I were Samsung or HTC, and I had heard the rumour that was floating about a few days ago that MS is negotiating to buy Nokia's phone division, I'd certainly have second thoughts about investing in developing another phone for WP7... So personally I'd wait and see what the first batch of the next gen phones will be. You don't NEED to upgrade as soon as your contract ends, do you? New customer deals are usually better than retention deals these days, so you're not locked in.
I dunno, it's handy to be able to see your appointments, messages, or whatever else at a glance, without needing to launch the full app. But a good notifications system goes part way towards mitigating lack of widgets.
TBH the only CURRENT mobile OSs that have "real" multitasking are Meego (which isn't really out yet) and Qnx. My old WM5.5/6 phone could multitask better than either Android, iOS or WP7. In all honesty I don't see why MS rebuilt the OS from scratch, they could've just stuck their Metro skin over WM6 and it would compete just fine.
Then what are you doing here?
Must.... resist.... penis... joke!
The 3GS was (and probably still is) far more expensive however, whereas when I got my Hero it was free on a fairly cheap 18 month contract. They weren't really competing.
It's fair to say that any decent, new Android device won't feel slow in 18 months time, especially the dual core handsets like the SGS2.
I think the point to take away from the comparison posts is that when the hero came out Android and the hardware it ran on was really in it's infancy, most phones released pre 2.1 are pretty much irrelevant now, 2.1 was a real stepping stone for the OS and the hardware that came about at that time. The JIT improvements that came in 2.2 also helped boost the Android scene...
I can't really comment on the 3GS...
*reminisces* oh the heady days of Android 1.0
I can't really comment on the 3GS...
*reminisces* oh the heady days of Android 1.0
Not much point comparing the iPhones in any of these discussions. They've priced themelves out of it - They are twice what you'd pay (either sim free or contract) for the equivalent competitive Android phone, and this is what makes Android such a hit.
Instead of comparing the 3GS with a Hero, you should be comparing it with a Motorola Droid or Nexus 1.
The Intel Extreme Edition Chips are pretty nice too, but most people would rather just overclock a 2500K.
Instead of comparing the 3GS with a Hero, you should be comparing it with a Motorola Droid or Nexus 1.
The Intel Extreme Edition Chips are pretty nice too, but most people would rather just overclock a 2500K.
^ I agree with that. Metro UI is great and the easiest smartphone OS to use. We've got something for everyone atm, (including BB and webOS hopefully)
That's unfair tbh, the MSM7xxx was Qualcomms top SoC until they finished Snapdragon for late 09/early 10 (6 months behind TI/Samsung's 65nm cortex A8) A better comparison would be the Nexus 1/Desire
HTC were just a small OEM making phones from boggo/off the shelf parts back then (you can still see this in phones like the Sensation, they can't joint fund a state of the art IPS factory with LG just yet
Qualcomm released the Snapdragon that was used in the N1/Desire in Q4 2008, obviously takes some time to test/setup everything but the Desire wasn't released until Feb 2010, over a year. In contrast the dual-core in the Sensation was released Q3 2009 and has just been released under a year later in the phone.
The Hero could, and should, have been the Snapdragon, possibly with a month or two extra on release date.
But that wasn't really my main point, it was simply that at the time of the Hero/3GS android hardware was lagging behind which did lead to issues with the phones becoming crap (I had a HTC Magic, couldn't make it all the way to 2 years on contract...)
However now with the latest phones that's been reversed, the Android phones of today are a step ahead of the iPhone in terms of hardware and I don't believe will suffer the same problems (take the desire, 15 months old and still an extremely capable phone)
Why is the discussion around phones that are
A: Not in his list?
B: Not been sold in the last year?
In an attempt to steer this back a bit (but a good try Robbo, I commend you for fitting an iPhone troll into a non iOS thread ) metro is a strong base that currently has some "interesting" quirks to me. The tester here isn't too popular as while it works all good and well, its a bit lacking in nice to have features. Omissions like ringtones - don't get me wrong, a small thing, but why is it missing? The Mango presentation looks great but will it be backported to the current generation in a decent timeframe? Will the operators butcher it again? I'm not saying this doesn't happen to Android, hell it happens more, but it feels like if it ever became an issue you can do something yourself when it comes to the other OSes, Win7 is more the one where others are in charge I guess.
What you ultimately should do is try one in store - Metro is a marmite OS and you'll probably know if you love it within a few minutes. Try and do your normal stuff (fb, text, chat etc.. load a favourite website) on it. On a personal level I'd avoid the defy over a more recent handset unless you need a shock/water/flame proof phone.
A: Not in his list?
B: Not been sold in the last year?
In an attempt to steer this back a bit (but a good try Robbo, I commend you for fitting an iPhone troll into a non iOS thread
) metro is a strong base that currently has some "interesting" quirks to me. The tester here isn't too popular as while it works all good and well, its a bit lacking in nice to have features. Omissions like ringtones - don't get me wrong, a small thing, but why is it missing? The Mango presentation looks great but will it be backported to the current generation in a decent timeframe? Will the operators butcher it again? I'm not saying this doesn't happen to Android, hell it happens more, but it feels like if it ever became an issue you can do something yourself when it comes to the other OSes, Win7 is more the one where others are in charge I guess.What you ultimately should do is try one in store - Metro is a marmite OS and you'll probably know if you love it within a few minutes. Try and do your normal stuff (fb, text, chat etc.. load a favourite website) on it. On a personal level I'd avoid the defy over a more recent handset unless you need a shock/water/flame proof phone.
Why is the discussion around phones that are
A: Not in his list?
B: Not been sold in the last year?
In an attempt to steer this back a bit (but a good try Robbo, I commend you for fitting an iPhone troll into a non iOS thread
What you ultimately should do is try one in store - Metro is a marmite OS and you'll probably know if you love it within a few minutes. Try and do your normal stuff (fb, text, chat etc.. load a favourite website) on it. On a personal level I'd avoid the defy over a more recent handset unless you need a shock/water/flame proof phone.
Custom ringtones are confirmed for Mango and MS have confirmed all existing handsets will receive the update in the fall. MS have said they've learnt a lot from the NoDo fiasco so I'm hoping for an easier upgrade. It's also been suggested developer handsets will get it in a month so hopefully they'll be some earlier access too.
One thing I'm getting from this thread and other forums I've been browsing since the Mango presentation is the feeling there really are now 3 contenders in the smart phone race. iOS, Android and WP7 are all viable ecosystems and which ever is the best will be dependent on what someone wants from their phone. It's good there isn't a clear winner and there's genuine competition in this space.
+ you should've put "Android vs Windows Phones vs iPhone" in the title. Loads more opinions/responses then...
True - but I hate iPhones, overrated and in-practical in my opinion.
Ok, ok, just for the record my earlier posts were intended as a JOKE.
I see they went flying over some peoples heads
Its strange though since the GS2 I just don't even need to retort to iphone arguments, if you cant see the quality Android when ran on a high spec'd device then I think you (not you, speaking rhetorically), need your head examining.
Android > WP7 > ios
iOS is great for many people, it gets the job done and is backed up by a great app store.
As people say though, it isn't much more than an app launching platform.
With regard to WP7, I love the UI and I think it is very, very clever. Microsoft just need to make sure the software support is there and they fix any problems, and then they can really market the new Nokia phone, big time.
People will buy it.