~*Anime*~ fans rejoice : Japan to produce real Gundam

[Castiel]

What I want to know is when can I buy my own ED-209 for security purposes?

When they make stairs obsolete......

 

[elmuzzy66.]

Metal gear is the way forward.

 

[IronWarrior]

However, the inception of all those weapons had a practical and verifiable advantage at the time of their introduction.........on going development and tactical progression in rival weapon systems ensures advancement as you have said....however, the idea that Giant Battle Robots have any distinct and identifiable advantage on a modern battlefield is the issue here......

There is none that can be readily identified, the Robot would be simply obsolete before it was put into production and furthermore their would be no development of the design as it would, like the Battleship, simply be obsolete....for every successful weapon design there are hundreds of designs and ideas that fail.

So your post ascribing analogies between typhoons and sopwiths etc is largely immaterial, as all those initial weapons systems had an identifiable and distinct tactical advantage which led to their development.

Gundams do not, so no-one in their right mind would continue to develop a system that had no practical tactical or operational advantages over current technology, let alone a system that has little or no operational purpose to begin with.

The person with no argument is you, unless you can demonstrate a practical and identifiable operational and tactical purpose for a giant robot that is not currently filled by a better or more practical solution?

So you are suggesting, that this point forward, that our current war weapons as in the Tank and the APC is for what of a better word the final and best things we will ever use and that they will be the only two units that will ever be used in the current day and future wars on too 100+ or 1000+ years? Because... it would be in your own words, no-one in the their right would develop a system that had no tactical or operational advantage?

It's inevitable as weapons become more deadly, they will design protection systems as in armour or shields and as man is the idle hunter and killer as we are, it's pretty inevitable that we ourselves will be wearing armour in the future, the US Army is already playing with designs of that as we speak.

The next step is a two legged machine that has the firepower of a tank, but the movability of a person but enhanced so much.

Honestly, if you still think in the far future after we both died and so on, that our soldiers will be fighting in tanks like our current day tanks and fighting in plain cotton clothing, then you Sir are short sighted, have no imagination or creative ability.

 

[ubersonic]

The next step is a two legged machine that has the firepower of a tank, but the movability of a person but enhanced so much.

Then it can get ****** over by Ewoks.

Seriously, tanks have tracks because it gives better terrain crossing than wheels or legs. Maybe a mech like the ones from Terminator or a giant version of the robot form short circuit would work but not legs, you build on strengths not weaknesses.

 

[Efour]

You got served!

 

[IronWarrior]

Then it can get ****** over by Ewoks.

Seriously, tanks have tracks because it gives better terrain crossing than wheels or legs. Maybe a mech like the ones from Terminator or a giant version of the robot form short circuit would work but not legs, you build on strengths not weaknesses.

The walkers in Starwars was slow and lumbering (I vision that our first mechs will be like this, slow and **** at first till they become a lot better), had their purpose through but like anything, it has weakness, a tank is a awesome fighting machine untill you knock it's tracks off then it's a sitting duck.

Personally, An X size bipedal machine could cross terrain faster then a tracked vehicle ever could. If you think of the T-Rex, they believe it could go as fast as 25mph to 43mph and that's on two legs on whatever theory you believe, link if you want a look yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrannosaurus#Locomotion which is just slightly slower then a battletank at combat speed over rough terrain.

There is also the Cheetah which is 4 bipedal and can reach speeds of 75mph.

The anime Gasaraki would be good to watch as it shows examples on modern day mechs fighting tanks, it's set in modern times with a war going on that is pretty much like Desert Storm, the mechs they use are nothing like Gumdams and are a lot much closer to current day technology.

Found a youtube video of it, 5 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4b-haPATmI

 

[wannabedamned]

Plus Gundams Fly! FLY!

 

[Castiel]

So you are suggesting, that this point forward, that our current war weapons as in the Tank and the APC is for what of a better word the final and best things we will ever use and that they will be the only two units that will ever be used in the current day and future wars on too 100+ or 1000+ years? Because... it would be in your own words, no-one in the their right would develop a system that had no tactical or operational advantage?

No, I am saying that their is no current clear and identifiable operational and tactical need for a giant combat robot...so the ideal of building them is pretty much nonsense.

They did not develop the Tank at the turn of the century because they though they might come in useful in 1942....they developed them because there was a current and identifiable need for an armoured vehicle able to traverse largely impassable trench battlefields and break the stalemate that trench warfare had created....equally with other weapons designs...their development, initially and ongoing is predicated by a practical and tactical operational need for such platforms....

Today, to some degree the Battle Tank is also largely redundant in today's combat theatres, and there is little in the way of major investment in ongoing development in new Battle-tank designs other than where the technology has other practical and tactical applications, the money is better spent elsewhere, in smaller more agile, urban warfare units which can withstand IEDs for example.....so building what amounts to a giant two legged battle-tank seems to be pretty stupid.

It's inevitable as weapons become more deadly, they will design protection systems as in armour or shields and as man is the idle hunter and killer as we are, it's pretty inevitable that we ourselves will be wearing armour in the future, the US Army is already playing with designs of that as we speak

Stronger, Lighter, Cheaper and more Agile body armour is not the same as developing giant gundam robots, so the comparison you are trying to make is redundant before you begin. The fact is that modern warfare has no need for a giant robot, they would have no identifiable or tactical niche in modern combat operations.....and because of that, spending tens of billions of dollars on developing them would be financially and practically irresponsible when the money would be better spent developing and improving weapons platforms and materiel designed to meet the expectations of real-world combat operations, rather than fantasy scenarios from science fiction.

The next step is a two legged machine that has the firepower of a tank, but the movability of a person but enhanced so much.

Currently there is no need to develop such technology, it offers no practical use in current or foreseeable combat operations globally. Also they can do nothing that a fully equipped and trained Solder cannot do cheaper and more effectively.....not to mention the inherent versatility in a human soldier over than of a killer robot.

Honestly, if you still think in the far future after we both died and so on, that our soldiers will be fighting in tanks like our current day tanks and fighting in plain cotton clothing, then you Sir are short sighted, have no imagination or creative ability.

Sure, whatever, however we are not talking about combat operations in a 1000 years time, but the idea that spending billions of Dollars on developing giant battle robots is a practical solution in today's combat scenarios.....and what I do have is two decades of combat experience and a very good idea of the needs and practicalities of what modern combat operations need....and that doesn't include Giant Robots.......

 

[IronWarrior]

Castiel, you seem to have misunderstand me, at no point, have I said, there was a need in our current day of age for mechs, but from what I have read, every point you have made, seems to suggest otherwise that I have.

My point is that mechs will be developed in the future be it tomorrow in our age or in the next 100 years or longer and I have said this right at the start, that they will replace tanks, I love tanks so I still see a role for a tank in the next 100 or 1000 years, but we still have mechs as the main units.

The first units most likely will be machines for construction work or warehouse work like the Loader from Aliens.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

I came here to poke fun at stupid anime (yes Dad, **** YOU!) and instead I get debate.

And now I am intrigued and I want you both to continue.

 

[ArnieRambo]

i came here to poke fun at people who watch shows like American dad...kids

 

[IronWarrior]

If you want to talk about if it's right for Japan to make a real life mech now, yes it could be easy seen as a waste of money, but if everything was about money, we would had never gone to space or to the Moon.

 

[Castiel]

The walkers in Starwars was slow and lumbering (I vision that our first mechs will be like this, slow and **** at first till they become a lot better), had their purpose through but like anything, it has weakness, a tank is a awesome fighting machine untill you knock it's tracks off then it's a sitting duck.

Which is why Main Battle Tanks are rarely used in modern combat theatres......not to mention this is not Star Wars.....

Personally, An X size bipedal machine could cross terrain faster then a tracked vehicle ever could. If you think of the T-Rex, they believe it could go as fast as 25mph to 43mph and that's on two legs on whatever theory you believe, link if you want a look yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrannosaurus#Locomotion which is just slightly slower then a battletank at combat speed over rough terrain.

To what practical purpose....there are faster more efficient ways of ensuring troop movements to and from combat operations, insertion largely relies on stealth and surprise anyway, hardly the prerequisites of giant running robots.....or Jurassic park dinosaurs.....not to mention what happens when a bipedal, high centre of gravity machine loses its footing or is hit by a HE or AR round in it's highly vulnerable legs.

There is also the Cheetah which is 4 bipedal and can reach speeds of 75mph.

The cheetah is a quadruped, not a 4 biped, which presumably would mean it had eight legs......and a Cheetah can reach such speeds at great cost to it's durability and strength.....

The anime Gasaraki would be good to watch as it shows examples on modern day mechs fighting tanks, it's set in modern times with a war going on that is pretty much like Desert Storm, the mechs they use are nothing like Gumdams and are a lot much closer to current day technology.

It is a fantasy.......the problem is that you are basing your ideas, not on reality but a fictional and largely unrepresentative vision of reality....

It might look cool, but it is simply unrealistic and impractical.

 

[Castiel]

Castiel, you seem to have misunderstand me, at no point, have I said, there was a need in our current day of age for mechs, but from what I have read, every point you have made, seems to suggest otherwise that I have.

My point is that mechs will be developed in the future be it tomorrow in our age or in the next 100 years or longer and I have said this right at the start, that they will replace tanks, I love tanks so I still see a role for a tank in the next 100 or 1000 years, but we still have mechs as the main units.

The first units most likely will be machines for construction work or warehouse work like the Loader from Aliens.

However, the OP is about building a Giant Combat Robot now...not in a hundred or a thousand years time, when who knows what the needs of combat operations will be.......

We may as well be discussing the need for phased-multi dimensional anti-muslamic ray guns to combat the inevitable invasion of the Inter-dimensional Jihad of the Intergalactic Islamic Caliphate through the wormholes being created in the LHC at Cern.....

 

[IronWarrior]

Which is why Main Battle Tanks are rarely used in modern combat theatres......not to mention this is not Star Wars.....

Main Battle tanks "ours" are currently deployed over in Afghanistan and if you look at other wars around the world for example, like Syria they are being used there.

To what practical purpose....there are faster more efficient ways of ensuring troop movements to and from combat operations, insertion largely relies on stealth and surprise anyway, hardly the prerequisites of giant running robots.....or Jurassic park dinosaurs.....not to mention what happens when a bipedal, high centre of gravity machine loses its footing or is hit by a HE or AR round in it's highly vulnerable legs.

Hmm, I think you are suggestion high number of troop movements, where a bipedal machine is a fighting vehicle and not a transport, the tanks has two roles in wars, to take and hold ground and to engage enemy tanks. An Bipedal mech would do this but better since it's faster and is it's agility and movability is far higher, you could for a rough example, call them fighter jets on legs, that's if we compare them to the top ladder of mechs, like gundams or whatever.

Your final comment is not irreverent to be honest, our current day vehicles all have weak spots in the tracks or the wheels or in the engine section. I say this, if you are lucky enough to hit a high speed mech that is dancing around the battlefield with a direct hit on the legs, then credit to that man! Good shot.

The cheetah is a quadruped, not a 4 biped, which presumably would mean it had eight legs......and a Cheetah can reach such speeds at great cost to it's durability and strength.....

My mistake, but I hope you understand what I meant.

It is a fantasy.......the problem is that you are basing your ideas, not on reality but a fictional and largely unrepresentative vision of reality....

It might look cool, but it is simply unrealistic and impractical.

Castiel, you should know by now, I hope you are as old as me, that everything starts as fantasy, how much technology we use today that we thought was fantasy when we used to watch the first Star Trek?

Today's super computers that the military uses, all play games on fantasy with and without facts to see what would happen.

Heard the term, fantasy today, reality tomorrow?

Anyway, like I said before, you misunderstand me from the beginning.

 

[IronWarrior]

However, the OP is about building a Giant Combat Robot now...not in a hundred or a thousand years time, when who knows what the needs of combat operations will be.......

We may as well be discussing the need for phased-multi dimensional anti-muslamic ray guns to combat the inevitable invasion of the Inter-dimensional Jihad of the Intergalactic Islamic Caliphate through the wormholes being created in the LHC at Cern.....

Yes, the OP was, but I wasn't.

And like you said, overclockers.co.uk might be discussing that one day, you never know!

 

[ArnieRambo]

THEY still need a base model/creation to see its limits...do you think everything was built once and was perfect lol

 

[IronWarrior]

THEY still need a base model/creation to see its limits...do you think everything was built once and was perfect lol

Yes, indeed, everything has a start, look at how us humans grow.

Ahh, I think I might go to bed now, I haven't been to sleep yet. lol

 

[Castiel]

Castiel, you should know by now, I hope you are as old as me, that everything starts as fantasy, how much technology we use today that we thought was fantasy when we used to watch the first Star Trek?

My age is immaterial......In fact everything begins with a practical problem that needs a solution, Star Trek may be fantasy, but it addressed practical problems in medical and technology that have current practical applications...thus you see the crossover between fiction and fact.

The same is simply not true with Gundam Robots.

And Tanks are used in very limited situations in Afghanistan (the US did not even deploy any battle tanks until 2011) and that is only because of changes in Taliban deployments from mobile to entrenched positions and a shift to more conventional infantry tactics as the fighting has intensified as their positions are squeezed in some regions and in holding urban areas under heavy insurgent operations.....and this is the point I was making...Tanks have been deployed in areas where there is an identifiable and tactical reason for doing so....unless you can identify (and to a far greater extent, given the inherent cost of development) a tactical necessity for such a weapon, then building a Gundam Robot is irresponsible and a waste of money...especially given the offensive capability of current weapons platforms both in practical combat theatre and in addressing the inherent weaknesses in Giant Robot design.

Today's super computers that the military uses, all play games on fantasy with and without facts to see what would happen.

They use speculative combat scenarios to predict and improve assessment and tactical deployments.....they do not sit around fighting robot wars.

Heard the term, fantasy today, reality tomorrow?

Give me one practical and necessary operational scenario whereby the most cost effective and practical solution would be to have a giant robot over any of the current technology or development of today's technology could not provide more effectively?

Anyway, like I said before, you misunderstand me from the beginning.

Sure. You are talking about fantasy scenarios. I get it.

 

[Mat]

We may as well be discussing the need for phased-multi dimensional anti-muslamic ray guns to combat the inevitable invasion of the Inter-dimensional Jihad of the Intergalactic Islamic Caliphate through the wormholes being created in the LHC at Cern.....

Oh my God!

Does the government know about this? Shouldn't we be doing something RIGHT NOW to deal with this?

I'm going to email the Mail to make sure this is made known to the public!