Another capital punishment thread

[Liefrich]

it does work though, it saves the tax payer a fortune

Does it? Do you have any evidence for this claim? I'm pretty sure in any right minded country, it would actually cost more because of the necessary appeals.

Irrespective of the cost, it simply does not reduce serious crimes. There was crime when we had it, more crime, in fact. The USA is hardly crime free... People who commit such heinous acts that would result in this penalty are not bothered about the the threat of the death penalty.

 

[arknor]

Sorry, did you not read the link. More murders in states that have capital punishment than those that don't.

So increased numbers of serious crime and it's not free to kill them nor free to investigate and prosecute the extra crimes.

Beyond any other reason, how does that 'work'?

its cheaper to kill them... that keep them in prison for life

google suggests almost 50k a year per prisoner, and I'm assuming that's not really accurate for people in the most secure prisons.

In the US it's expensive because they sit on death row forever, we aren't talking anyone committed of murder, only the ones who can never be allowed out anyway.


where as america will kill people who did something dumb at 19 and a bystander got shot or whatever



no one is saying it will deter murder.... it should be reserved for people who don't deserve to live, the ones who never see freedom anyway.

lets say some serial killer is in for 50 years, 50k a year... 2.5mil for one guy and that's if they were treated like a normal prisoner on a normal wing

 

[Chris Wilson]

It doesn't work. Besides any other reason, it doesn't work

It works at the very least in so far as they don't murder again.

 

[arknor]

It works at the very least in so far as they don't murder again.

people would rather spend 2.5mil keeping someone like harold shipman alive for 50 years it seems.


no doubt way more than that for someone in a secure prison though with suicide watch etc and all the special treatment people like him would have got to try and keep them alive

 

[StriderX]

people would rather spend 2.5mil keeping someone like harold shipman alive for 50 years it seems.


no doubt way more than that for someone in a secure prison though with suicide watch etc and all the special treatment people like him would have got to try and keep them alive

Do you think his 50 years was fun?

Living is worse than dying once the crime(s) have been committed. If a crime is about to be/being committed where someone else's life is in immediate danger then I think there's a natural exception there for flinging a round into them.

 

[ArcticHeron]

It's just too reactive a solution imo. It stops being justice and starts being state sponsored revenge.

I always remember reading about Jesse Tafero. Executed by electric chair in the 90s but was overturned in 92 when a recreation proved that there was a third suspect who committed the crimes he was sentenced for. What's worse is that the chair malfunctioned three times and his head caught on fire...

As soon as someone is wrongfully executed the system has failed. That's state sponsored murder and that can never be righted. It's not worth the risk, ever. I'd rather know my taxpayers money was going to imprisonment then any chance however slim of wrongful execution.

 

[arknor]

Do you think his 50 years was fun?

Prison isn't supposed to be a punsihment, it's meant to be about rehabilitation.

if you can't rehabilitate then why bother keeping them locked up

also he didn't serve 50 years since he hanged himself after 4


don't get why america =- us now... everyone knows only the rich get justice in the states....

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Cryogenic Imprisonment: No-one dies and inmates learn to knit. They do need the 3 seashells explained to them before they are released.

 

[Resident]

That was the plot of a Star Trek TNG episode if I remember correctly. Death was the penalty for even the slightest accidental breach of the law on some outwardly liberal planet.

Episode was called Justice. Wesley Crusher accidentally falls into a "sacred" flowerbed and is sentenced to death.

its cheaper to kill them... that keep them in prison for life

google suggests almost 50k a year per prisoner, and I'm assuming that's not really accurate for people in the most secure prisons.

In the US it's expensive because they sit on death row forever, we aren't talking anyone committed of murder, only the ones who can never be allowed out anyway.


where as america will kill people who did something dumb at 19 and a bystander got shot or whatever



no one is saying it will deter murder.... it should be reserved for people who don't deserve to live, the ones who never see freedom anyway.

lets say some serial killer is in for 50 years, 50k a year... 2.5mil for one guy and that's if they were treated like a normal prisoner on a normal wing

Average cost is £48,162 (2021/22) and it's increasing.

 

[arknor]

Episode was called Justice. Wesley Crusher accidentally falls into a "sacred" flowerbed and is sentenced to death.


Average cost is £48,162 (2021/22) and it's increasing.

over 80k for high security it seems which is where these people would be

It costs £81,847 to house every prisoner at East Yorkshire jail

HMP Full Sutton, home to some of the country’s most dangerous people, is one of the most expensive to run in England

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

seems it rose by 16% compared to the previous year too, so could be well above 100k each by now

 

[GordyR]

its cheaper to kill them... that keep them in prison for life

Eh?

It's pretty common knowledge that capital punishment is significantly more expensive than life imprisonment.

Aside from the fact that it's fairly trivial to look up the hugely inflated costs in the backwards US states that still have it compared with those that don't, there's been study after study into this, and as far as I know there's no real disagreement on the matter:

Costs | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

The death penalty is far more expensive than a system utilizing life-without-parole sentences as an alternative punishment. Some of the reasons for the high cost of the death penalty are the longer trials and appeals required when a person’s life is on the line, the need for more lawyers and experts on both sides of the case, and the relative rarity of executions. Most cases in which the death penalty is sought do not end up with the death penalty being imposed. And once a death sentence is imposed, the most likely outcome of the case is that the conviction or death sentence will be overturned in the courts. Most defendants who are sentenced to death essentially end up spending life in prison, but at a highly inflated cost because the death penalty was involved in the process.

Here's some more data you might find interesting:

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/76th2011/ExhibitDocument/OpenExhibitDocument?exhibitId=17686&fileDownloadName=h041211ab501_pescetta.pdf

 

[adidan]

@GordyR Don't bother mate, it seems the thread is more for an angry rant on opinions, facts aren't important.

 

[Lysander]

Ooooh Gordy is here <3

Hunka hunka

 

[GordyR]

Ooooh Gordy is here <3

Hunka hunka

Not for long though... I have a busy afternoon ahead of me.

 

[cainer]

I'm up for it as long as it's done properly...

 

[arknor]

It's pretty common knowledge that capital punishment is significantly more expensive than life imprisonment.

based on America, we aren't america...

I wasn't talking about america where people who commiteds a robbery at 18 end up on death row for 50 years. we are talking people who can never be allowed back into society, like serial killers and serial rapists, child abusers with a history of commiting acts.

not one guy for what could be an isolated incident or mistaken identity

it's common knowledge gun ownership reducdes knife crime, burglary, theft etc. lets legalise it? cos its the murican way

 

[Stu999]

based on America, we aren't america...

it's common knowledge gun ownership reducdes knife crime, burglary, theft etc. lets legalise it? cos its the murican way

Apparently US prisoners on death row wait 10+ years to lodge their appeals just to lengthen the process.

Edit - indeed the links Gordy provided state that they don’t even carry out the penalty in most cases. I remember there was a big fuss last year (IIRC) when one of the states were going to actually carry out the sentence.

@GordyR - have you got any sources in your links where they actually break down true costs? There’s a lot of “this one was $200m”, “this one was $300m” but not a lot of what makes up those costs.

 

[krooton]

it's common knowledge gun ownership reducdes knife crime, burglary, theft etc. lets legalise it? cos its the murican way

Is that so?

United Kingdom vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Total crimes, Crime levels, Murder rate per million people, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate and 62 More Interesting Facts and Stats

www.nationmaster.com

America outdoes us by like 135x in terms of firearm murders per million, 4x violent crime murder rate per million, 10x murders committed by youths per million.

Gun ownership might decrease knife crime... by increasing gun crime.

 

[GordyR]

based on America, we aren't america...

Unless you want to throw out all of the rigorous jurisprudence and just willy nilly stick anyone accused of murder straight into the gas chamber, then it's always going to be significantly more expensive.

Even as things stand, the number of people that have been wrongfully executed is abhorrently high. Remove all of the stringent legal controls and expected multiple appeal attempts and you're going to be killing innocent people on a daily basis.

Congratulations... You just took us back to the dark ages.

Let's hope no one ever accuses you of something you never did eh?

it's common knowledge gun ownership reducdes knife crime, burglary, theft etc. lets legalise it? cos its the murican way

No its not. It would be fairly trivial of me to provide data demonstrating that not one claim in that sentence is true.

Unfortunately I'm on my way out shortly so i'll have to leave doing so to someone else.

 

[arknor]

Even as things stand, the number of people that have been wrongfully executed is abhorrently high

how many wrongly convicted serial killers and serial rapists/pedos have there been in this country?

oh sorry you're talking about america again who execute people other than the above which is what i specifically mentioned in my posts, even going as far as to name people ship shipman, west, hindley etc

I'm not talking about your average murderer who in america can go on death row but over here probably gets out in 7 years.