Another RTX GPU Moan Thread

esoteric · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:27

You'll get no where on that one. It's down to the game developers not nvidia.

ltron · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:30

Most of the DLC for Final Fantasy has been cancelled https://www.eteknix.com/final-fantasy-xv-dlc-cancellation-may-cost-square-enix-33m/. I fear for DLSS as far as that game is concerned.

Maybe DLSS does not work properly in a real game as things are less predictable than a canned benchmark and the AI may struggle. Therefore, Nvidia may want to keep it it from being shown until they absolutely have to. That's the only explanation I can see at the moment and it's a worrying one.

TheRealDeal · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:33

Final Fantasy is most likely now not getting DLSS either. They have scrapped plans for further improvements and DLC for FF15. The benchmark has it but that was pretty much ready to go and only took so long due to the windows update. Here is the article.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/f...elled-and-yes-that-includes-rtx-features.html

RT is pretty much a gimmick on the 20 series cards but i suppose it's got to start somewhere. Really like the look of DLSS especially as i now run a 4k screen. Just needs to be in more games.

opethdisciple · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:33

It just works.

LePhuronn · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:36

There is zero chance of claiming a mis-selling. Nvidia haven't mis-sold anything. They've developed AI-based anti-aliasing and Ray Tracing accelerators and included them on their RTX cards, but it is totally out of their hands if game developers choose to use that tech or not.

Panos · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:49

darudeuk said:
Hey folks, some people are either going to be amused or angry with this post, but I'm being entirely serious.

It's been 3 months since release and not a single title has DLSS enabled in it, BF V has Raytracing now, but no DLSS? Surely it would support both?

My point is anyway, and this is what's going to get people a bit emotional one way or another, at what point do we say, no DLSS in games (which really should have been ready at launch on some titles as they used lauch graphic examples on stage) do we turn around and say, hey we've been mis-sold, we want our money back?

Is this reason enough to get a retailer to take the cards back? I doubt it would be, not even awesome retailers like Overclockers, and I bet you diamonds NVIDIA wouldn't take em back, but seems like utterly mis-sold. Also as an extra this so called improvement on NVENC which is actually no different to the 10 series cards.

Just to reiterate, they showed 4k charts on Final Fantasy (which i know is coming soonish) Ark, Shadow of Tombraider, Hitman 2, Wolfenstein 3, Shadow of War and Mass Effect. along with a few others.

I know PUBG had the files ready for the implimentation of DLSS but they quickly got removed.

a) Final Fantasy doesn't come out "soonish". The further development is cancelled including DLSS. Nvidia yesterday released a benchmark demo for it, and thats it.

b) DLSS & Ray tracing are using the tensor cores. You can have one or the other not both. Already BF5 has showed that even for ray tracing the tensor cores aren't many enough to push performance. If you add DLSS workload on them, the games going to be slideshows. Already 2070 & 2080 are out of question for meaningless RT also.

c) Back in 2006, Nvidia sold the 8800GTX, 8800GTS640 & 8800GTX320 as the epitome of performance in DX10 and the upcoming Crysis supporting it. (was the second game, and 1st major title using DX10).
Crysis came out a year later, and the performance in DX10 with those cards was completely horrendous. Similar situation we see now. However is not Nvidia's or retailers fault.

d) The 4K charts Nvidia showed comparing 1080 to 2080 weren't that far off from reality (some were). Reason was that the 1080 ram bandwidth is pretty limited to 4K resolution.
Also Nvidia only showed % increase and not true FPS, and especially without Ray tracing.

However all those potential implications were known. Many in this very forums raised their concerns that the numbers don't add up, but they were silenced over personal abuse and character integrity killing.
Now you reap what you sow

LePhuronn · 15 Nov 2018 at 16:57

darudeuk said:
I would argue that's a lie considering they included performance benchmarks more than 3 months ago.

You can argue all you want, you will get nowhere. Especially if you start citing benchmarks because that proves somebody is utilising the technology and therefore your entire argument is moot.

While you're at it, how do you fancy mis-selling claims for all the tech AMD incorporated into their cards over the years that never got used? What about the original Aegis PhysX add-in card?

Panos · 15 Nov 2018 at 17:05

LePhuronn said:
You can argue all you want, you will get nowhere. Especially if you start citing benchmarks because that proves somebody is utilising the technology and therefore your entire argument is moot.

While you're at it, how do you fancy mis-selling claims for all the tech AMD incorporated into their cards over the years that never got used? What about the original Aegis PhysX add-in card?

That one was bought by Nvidia and got killed straight away. Up to last year, there were around 60 titles supporting PhysX over 12 years period. If you exclude Batman series, the were around 10 AAA titles only.
AMD TrueAudio wasn't 290X main selling point though. Was an added features, and still is there but only 1 game came out supporting it.

danoliver1 · 15 Nov 2018 at 17:13

opethdisciple said:
It just about works.

Fixed

Dan82 · 15 Nov 2018 at 17:15

@Panos

Sounding like a knob as usual. DLSS and RT can work together as shown by the star wars tech demo. I'm also sure BF 5 and SOTTR will also prove you wrong too

Panos · 15 Nov 2018 at 17:17

Dan82 said:
@Panos

Sounding like a knob as usual. DLSS and RT can work together as shown by the star wars tech demo. I'm also sure BF 5 and SOTTR will also prove you wrong too

The Star wars tech demo was 1080@24fps video using the RTX6000.
No DLSS was used.

PiKe · 15 Nov 2018 at 17:20

The risk you take when you buy vapourware.

DrCrabHands · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:11

Panos said:
b) DLSS & Ray tracing are using the tensor cores. You can have one or the other not both. Already BF5 has showed that even for ray tracing the tensor cores aren't many enough to push performance. If you add DLSS workload on them, the games going to be slideshows. Already 2070 & 2080 are out of question for meaningless RT also.
]

That's not true. Turing gpus have dedicated RT cores and Tensor cores. When DLSS and RTX are used together we could see better RTX performance. When that will be, who knows?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_(microarchitecture)

DarrenM343 · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:15

darudeuk said:
It's been 3 months since release and not a single title has DLSS enabled in it, BF V has Raytracing now, but no DLSS? Surely it would support both?
.

I searched around yesterday and Dice were hoping to have DLSS in BFV for the release according to one site. Note that it's not really fully released yet until the 20th so if they're going to do it lets hope it's before then, not sometime after.
DLSS, according to Nvidia does have the potential to give a huge boost especially at 4K. If used with RT it should give a nice boost but might still not be acceptable performance for many. If used without RT then the 20 series should get a 25-40% uplift in performance . Note that there are some "If"statements here but there's evidence out there to suggest it's likley.
It's a join effort between NV and the game devs really. If RT or DLSS does not get implemented often then it will be a failure all round. We'd be foolish IMO to bet against them pulling it off

Panos · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:25

DrCrabHands said:
That's not true. Turing gpus have dedicated RT cores and Tensor cores. When DLSS and RTX are used together we could see better RTX performance. When that will be, who knows?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_(microarchitecture)

Tensor cores are used for de-noising Ray Tracing produced by RT Cores.

ltron · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:29

Panos said:
Tensor cores are used for de-noising Ray Tracing produced by RT Cores.

Except Dice have said they are doing the de-noising in software according to Digital Foundry (although this may have changed now) so they could use the tensor cores for DLSS. The question is what resolution will they need to upscale from to get decent performance, 480P? That won't look good on a 4K monitor.

The relevant paragraph: 'While DICE is getting some great quality of the rays it shoots, the unfiltered results of ray tracing are still rather noisy and imperfect. To clean that noisiness up, a custom temporal filter is used, along with a separate spatial filter after that to make sure reflections never break down and turn into their grainy unfiltered results. Interestingly, this mean that DICE is not currently using the Nvidia tensor cores or AI-trained de-noising filters to clean up its ray traced reflections'.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-battlefield-5s-stunning-rtx-ray-tracing-tech

LoadsaMoney · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:42

Just think how many years ATi had been mis-selling all those cards with unused tessellators on em, it came on their ancient 8500, and didn't get used in any games until after Nvidia launched their Fermis, a whole 9 years later!!! :eek:

Jeuss, imagine how much they'd be hit for if you could make a mis-selling claim!

AthlonXP1800 · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:49

Panos said:
The Star wars tech demo was 1080@24fps video using the RTX6000.
No DLSS was used.

Digital Foundry ran Star Wars Reflection tech demo at 4K@24fps with DLSS on RTX 2080 Ti.

https://www.digitalfoundry.net/2018-09-19-nvidia-reflection-star-wars-ray-tracing-with-dlss

DarrenM343 · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:58

"Battlefield 5 DLSS support will be added to the game at launch according to the multiplayer director." Found that on https://segmentnext.com/2018/10/22/battlefield-5-dlss-support/
It doesn't say if it can be used with RT but as detailed in posts above I assume it can. If not, many will just use DLSS I expect.

easyrider · 15 Nov 2018 at 18:59

Op please edit your thread title and remove another...