Any Denon AV owners who can help?

Firegod

Firegod

Firegod

Soldato
Joined
12 Sep 2003
Posts
10,515
Location
Newcastle, UK
Hello

I'm finally dipping my toe into surround sound with my AVR-X2400H. I bought x2 Cambridge Audio MIN22 satellite speakers to go to the sides. Up front I have my Triangle Borea BR08 floorstanding speakers. I don't have much room and I nearly went for the KEF T101 speakers but I think the Cambridge Audio satellites will perform better.

I've been reading the manual to see what I need to change on the Amp and I'm confused. :cry:

This is the setup I'm aiming for - minus the sub and center.

Diag1.jpg



And that diagram is accessed from the top line of this amp assign table (link not shown).

Diag2.jpg


It says "Can be set in all Amp Assign modes". What does that mean? Because, if I look at the Amp Assign modes, I can't see a 5.1 entry that relates to it. :confused:

Diag3.jpg


I thought maybe just leave it at ZONE2 (Default)? But then the diagram looks like this according to the manual.

Diag4.jpg


Any ideas? Or is that safe to use?

Once that is sorted I think I'm OK, I know I need to re-run Audyssey setup which is easy enough to do.

Oh, what sound mode would I then pick? Just set it back to "Auto" or should I manually set it to "Dolby Surround"? At the moment I have it set manually to "Stereo" as when it was on "Auto" it was choosing surrond modes when I only had two up front speakers, so I set it myself to be "Stereo". I know I don't want "Multi Ch Stereo" as that just pumps the same sound out of every speaker.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Denon AVR 4000x owner here. I feel your pain ;) Reading the Manual for mine & yours is like Reading the book for the recently Deceased, It does my head in these days, years it would have sunk in & I'd get it to work straight away.
I've read your manual and Pages 143 (Center Spread) & Page 144 Subwoofer on/off. Denon doesnt confirm this in both Manuals, I have a hunch that Center spread should direct the centre channel info to the front L/R. Turning the sub off should send the full range to the front L/R too. Leave it on Auto as mine detects what comes in via the HDMI if you have got the sound set that way, it will tell you what its decoding (DS, DD, DTS, Atmos etc.)
 
Grimley said:
Denon AVR 4000x owner here. I feel your pain ;) Reading the Manual for mine & yours is like Reading the book for the recently Deceased, It does my head in these days, years it would have sunk in & I'd get it to work straight away.
I've read your manual and Pages 143 (Center Spread) & Page 144 Subwoofer on/off. Denon doesnt confirm this in both Manuals, I have a hunch that Center spread should direct the centre channel info to the front L/R. Turning the sub off should send the full range to the front L/R too. Leave it on Auto as mine detects what comes in via the HDMI if you have got the sound set that way, it will tell you what its decoding (DS, DD, DTS, Atmos etc.)
Click to expand...
Thanks mate. I think I have subwoofer already set to "off" so that is cool. I hadn't heard about Center Spread! Looks like that option is only available for selection if the sound mode is detected as "Dolby Surround" otherwise it isn't available. So I'll keep my eyes peeled for that one and change it to "on" and see if that helps with widening the front signal. I did some further research on reddit and AV forums specificaly about the amp assign setting. From what little info I could find, I think, you just leave it alone. Only change amp assign when using more than 5.1 speakers.

So I think my todo list is simply:

1. Hook up Surrond Right and Surrond Left for my new speakers.
2. Re-run Audyssey setup.
3. Make sure the rears are set to size "Small"
3. Set sound mode back to "Auto".
4. If signal is detected as "Dolby Surrond", jump into surrond parmaters, and set Center Spread to "on".

Cheers.
 
hornetstinger said:
You still need a subwoofer though , those speakers only go down to 40hz. Pumping full range to them is not a good idea.
Click to expand...
But if he hasn't got one, he hasn't got one. Not everyone has either the budget, or space for even one subwoofer, let alone the 27 or whatever that you normally recommend.

Why can you not just suggest things that are helpful with what people actually have?
 
Armageus said:
But if he hasn't got one, he hasn't got one. Not everyone has either the budget, or space for even one subwoofer, let alone the 27 or whatever that you normally recommend.

Why can you not just suggest things that are helpful with what people actually have?
Click to expand...
True buying the BR08's did take a good chunk of cash recently. :) I would like a sub but, yeah, it is just on my todo list at some point haha. Thanks.
 
I'd set your fronts to small and set the crossover to 40hz so the fronts can go down to that frequency. Don't go beyond that as you'll risk damaging them. Once you have your sub then bring up to 80hz.
 
p28nay said:
I'd set your fronts to small and set the crossover to 40hz so the fronts can go down to that frequency. Don't go beyond that as you'll risk damaging them. Once you have your sub then bring up to 80hz.
Click to expand...

That won't work. Once you set subwoofer to off, mains will always be large, then all bass from other speakers, if you have per speaker crossover setting are sent to the mains. Which means full range is sent to them, increasing demand on the amplifier and speakers, increasing distortion, increasing the risk of speaker damage.

A method to protect your speakers, is to set subwoofer to on, even though you don't have one. That way bass is directed to a subwoofer that you don't have. You'll lack bass but at least you won't risk damaging your speakers. You can play around with crossover so there is a safe amount of bass sent to the speakers, put on a very bassy movie scene and put it loud as you normally would have it, and physically observe and listen to the speaker, note at what crossover setting begins to sound distorted. Start at 160hz, decreasing in 10hz steps and you'll notice when it doesn't sound that great. For example with a typical floorstander it'll probably sound fine 40-60hz, but below that amount of bass is too stressful and overloading the port, chuffing, etc.

I'd rather do this method for a short while on a pair of expensive speakers to prevent damage, then run full range (for movies) and risk damage.

LFE channel will be discarded when you set subwoofer to off, it's not re-directed.
 
Last edited:
hornetstinger said:
That won't work. Once you set subwoofer to off, mains will always be large, then all bass from other speakers, if you have per speaker crossover setting are sent to the mains. Which means full range is sent to them, increasing demand on the amplifier and speakers, increasing distortion, increasing the risk of speaker damage.

A method to protect your speakers, is to set subwoofer to on, even though you don't have one. That way bass is directed to a subwoofer that you don't have. You'll lack bass but at least you won't risk damaging your speakers. You can play around with crossover so there is a safe amount of bass sent to the speakers, put on a very bassy movie scene and put it loud as you normally would have it, and physically observe and listen to the speaker, note at what crossover setting begins to sound distorted. Start at 160hz, decreasing in 10hz steps and you'll notice when it doesn't sound that great. For example with a typical floorstander it'll probably sound fine 40-60hz, but below that amount of bass is too stressful and overloading the port, chuffing, etc.

I'd rather do this method for a short while on a pair of expensive speakers to prevent damage, then run full range (for movies) and risk damage.

LFE channel will be discarded when you set subwoofer to off, it's not re-directed.
Click to expand...

No idea if it’s correct…but logically that sounds spot on.
 
Firegod said:
....Oh, what sound mode would I then pick? Just set it back to "Auto" or should I manually set it to "Dolby Surround"? At the moment I have it set manually to "Stereo" as when it was on "Auto" it was choosing surrond modes when I only had two up front speakers, so I set it myself to be "Stereo". I know I don't want "Multi Ch Stereo" as that just pumps the same sound out of every speaker.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I've had Denon AVR's for several years and also have the Cambridge Audio Minx Min22; they are great little speakers for their size. (I use 4 of them on my ceiling for height channels)
I think you got the basics correct; in Amp Assign - Assign Mode, set the config to the lowest it will allow, which I think in your case is 5.1. Then run Audyssey which will then automatically detect the 4 speakers you do have plugged in and disable the sub and center.

After Audyssey is done go in and check that it has set all your speakers to small (if not you can manually change them) and the crossovers correctly. The Min22 should go down to 120Hz but I've found Audyssey can set them a little high for me at 200Hz so I will manually adjust that down.

For sound mode you should probably leave at Auto as that way it will change modes depending on the input, though if you want to "up mix" the audio so that the AVR simulates surround sound then you can manually select Dolby Surround.

If you don't have it already I would recommend at least trying the free Denon AVR app from your store

apps.apple.com

‎Denon AVR Remote

‎This app for iPhone and iPad will give you an unprecedented level of command and control over your 2014 or later model year network ready Denon AV Receivers (due to hardware differences, older models are not supported with this app. Please check the model compatibility list below; if your model...
apps.apple.com
play.google.com

Denon AVR Remote - Apps on Google Play

Control application for latest Denon Network AVR (from 2014 year)
play.google.com play.google.com

I find it useful as it's easier for me to see what the sound input/output is and make changing between modes easier.

53649638207_a97af190e8_z.jpg
53650858954_4aacb9251b_z.jpg
 
Last edited:
Zone2 is the correct setting. It means that your Surround Back terminals will only be fed if you have zone 2 turned on.
It's used when you have 1 amp and want to hookup say outdoor speakers to the same amp.

You only need to change the setting if you add another 2 speakers and looking at the options this could be done in a variety of ways including Atmos heights. You aren't restricted to just surround backs.

What it means by 'can be set in all amp assign modes' is that 5.1 can be used no matter how you set the last 2 speakers to output, whether that is as zone 2 or as 2 more in a 7.1 config.
Wording on Denon manuals isn't great in my experience.

As for the rest, I think there's quite a lot of over analysing and can't see how you'll cause any damage to speakers by letting Audysse do it's job.
 
Kamakazie! said:
As for the rest, I think there's quite a lot of over analysing and can't see how you'll cause any damage to speakers by letting Audysse do it's job.
Click to expand...

That is room correction, nothing to do with bass management, or how capable your speakers are and it certainly won't protect your speakers, it's not like a servo like sensing mechanism where it monitors in real time distortion/cone movement and dials it down to protect the driver.

However room EQ could apply boost, which can certainly cause extra demand on the amplifier.

Put on a heavy action scene, setting your speakers to large, subwoofer off, and it's quite easy to damage speakers. Especially those who've said they've got Minx 22 speakers, no way would you set them to large. I've monitored driver excursion on some floorstanders in large, and alarmed at how much they move to the point of risk of damage, then witching between small and large)

Some speakers are more prone to damage than others, and it's not covered under warranty.
 
Thanks all for the replies. Just got it setup a few hours ago, and all tidied up, and been watching loads of different stuff. :D

So Audyssey is all done. The min22 were correctly set to small. Still have fronts on large... for the mo. Crossover is at 150hz for surround. I'll mess around more for sure.

Amp assign is zone 2, thanks all, and yeah working fine. Woo! Sounding great.

Only thing I've had to tweak is channel level on the surrounds. Set them to - 4db and they blend a lot better I feel. They were a bit over powering before.
 
I understand the concerns about over driving speakers and any damage that could cause, but you don’t need to worry about running your mains as large without a sub after you’ve run a calibration.

Audyssey will always rolloff low frequency output well before the detected cutoff level of your speaker to prevent damage – it is a bit too aggressive in doing this imo.

As an example, the detected cutoff of my mains is 30hz and if left to its own devices, Audyssey would gradually start to rolloff from 100hz – if you were to add more boost to the bass, the rolloff curve just gets more extreme to compensate.

AFAIK the only way to change this behaviour is if you have an Audyssey MultEQ-X licence (the desktop app, not the mobile app) and specifically disable cutoff (and cancel the warning message) when you’re creating / editing a target curve.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom