Any professional coders here?

Beansprout said:
Haha, got a link? :D
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lol, i'm keen to read that aswell

In reply to the original, within the CS/irc/online-gaming world you probably will find someone to do it for that price - they won't be pro's but it'll get the job done. Hell, i would've done it a few years ago, purely because back then i enjoyed doing it that much. Plus it gives whoever does it some kudos to his clan mates ;)
 
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robc123 said:
I read an article the other day which stated that Microsoft Access is better than DB2 and Oracle.
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I also read a link that staplers are smarter than people.

Beat that.
 
MrWhippy said:
no offence but do you have any idea how much a coder costs?

i've been a software engineer for quite some time and i reckon on average i produce less than 60 lines of code a month, documented and debugged. that's like 3 a day, and last time i was working for a consultancy, they were charging me out at £450-500 a day.

like the man said, you're not gonna get what it looks like you're after for the budget you have (not to a pro standard anyhow). on the flip side, you might get something 'good enough' knocked up. just don't be expecting the earth.

not trying to be negative here, just trying to suggest that pro coders time is worth a lot of money.
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First, its 2 lines a day and second I don't belive you for a minute because both my parents and several friends are software engineer's in any thing from PHP, to IBM Assembler, if they produced that little code they wouldent be in a job.
 
unknowndomain said:
First, its 2 lines a day and second I don't belive you for a minute because both my parents and several friends are software engineer's in any thing from PHP, to IBM Assembler, if they produced that little code they wouldent be in a job.
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I'm a developer, and have just spent the last 6 months building a 5000-line project. 6 months is around 129 working days which I work out to be 38 lines of code in a day. Fully debugged and documented.

Coders don't just code. They document. They test. They debug. They sit in requirements meetings so they know what the hell they're doing. They sit in progress meetings so they know how they're getting on for time. The reason this happens so that the small amount of actual code they produce per day is actually code that the business/customer wants, and not just any old crap. Also, the coding doesn't take time, it's the documentation that does.

If you think a coder sits down in front of an IDE 9-5, they you're very very naive.
 
unknowndomain said:
First, its 2 lines a day and second I don't belive you for a minute because both my parents and several friends are software engineer's in any thing from PHP, to IBM Assembler, if they produced that little code they wouldent be in a job.
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not that i care much if you believe me or not, but...

how do you get 2 lines per day from 60 per month?
do you think i work 30 days per month?
have you not heard of weekends/bank holidays and anual leave?

there's 252 working days in my year.
div 12 equals 21 days per month on average.

as to my claim of 60 lines per month, that's up to you.
i claim it as a recent metric of my performance, if you don't believe me, fair enough. though obviously, i'm not implying i turn in in the morning, write 2 lines of code and then sit on my backside all the rest of the day. i'm suggesting that over the course of a project (many months) i spend less than 5% of my time writing lines of code. the rest of my time is spent writing documentation, running tests, attending meetings, liaising with engineers, clients, and managers etc. all those other tasks are crucial to my ability to produce quality end product (debugged lines of code).

so i'm suggesting that for a professional job, there's more to be paid for than simply the time it takes to write a few lines of code.

however, i am aware that there are a lot of people out there who claim to be software engineers who write code all day. they are so much more productive in terms of lines of code output than i could ever hope to be. they don't waste anywhere near as much time on design documentation, testing methodologies, etc.

they're also not really software engineers. they're hackers.

engineering is the process, not the product. if you don't follow the process, you're not an engineer.

:)
 
MrWhippy said:
so i'm suggesting that for a professional job, there's more to be paid for than simply the time it takes to write a few lines of code.
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I don't see why it's entirely unfeasible for someone to come forward to do a website for a clan website for cheap? I don't think this guy was expecting a full software development cycle, unit testing etc. just a PHP/CSSed version of a layout.

Debating what makes a "True Software Engineer*" is entirely irrelevant in a thread concerning what is essentially a hobbyist website... :)

*ever thought about how real engineers feel about that corruption?! :)
 
adamofgreyskull said:
*ever thought about how real engineers feel about that corruption?! :)
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It's still a type of engineering :p Just different from most other types.
 
unknowndomain said:
First, its 2 lines a day and second I don't belive you for a minute because both my parents and several friends are software engineer's in any thing from PHP, to IBM Assembler, if they produced that little code they wouldent be in a job.
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I was thinking along the same lines, a consultant may get away with it as they are mostly 50% work 50% BS :p However that kind of lack of work at the company I work for wouldnt get through probation period.

Anyway I am a sysadmin, the natural enemy of a Developer *growls*
 
Sic said:
i'd have done the layout for £150...but that's because i'm low on cash :(
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There are other services you can offer you know.

I hear ginger rent boys go down a storm. :o
 
this has gone wildly off-topic but i thought i'd add one more point - is all this hassle for the clan site ultimately worth it? back in the day, i did quite a few clan site designs for next to nothing, only to see them fold a few months later.

now i wasnt that annoyed about it, after all i did get some cash out of them. what was more annoying was the fact u couldnt show off your work cause the sites were taken offline.

so how long does this clan plan to stick together, 2 months?
 
Boz its a little different to your every day clan, its an organisation with 3 of the the UKs best teams (and in or near the top 10 in europe at each game), and we're looking to get some nice sponsors (which you dont get without a nice site)
 
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