Any Suggestions?

irtuk

irtuk

irtuk

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26 Sep 2008
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151
Hi all.

I have just completed my first watercooled build, fitted everything exactly per instructions, leak tested for a good length of time, and today I tried firing up the system for real.

The motherboard is responsive, at least the W/C loop spins up, but I am getting absolutley nothing else.

If I disconnect the monitor cable the monitor notices that it no longer has a connection, but other than that - zip. no POST, no drive access, nada.

Its a single loop with mainly EK gear on an ASUS Crosshair IV motherboard. I have cleared the BIOS a few times and I have connected a spare CPU fan I had to hand just in case it was worried about the absence of one. Still can't get any life out of it.

Sorry I cant really give any real information here, I guess I am after suggestions from more experienced builders as to what common mistakes people make.

I was slightly encouraged by the fact that the 4870X2 I have just transplanted into this machine ( this working one what I am writing on ) gave the exact same symptom as the watercooled 480GTX so I dont think I have blown the 480. Right now I have put the whole thing on one side for a nice calming DDO session as any more time with the watercooled build today is going to lead towards me testing the effects of chardonnay on it.

Any suggestions welcome. I know I have provided pretty much bugger all info here but thats sort of intentional. (1) I am stumped and (2) right now I am open to suggestions like "Have you plugged in the motherboard power" ?


-Ed.
 
Try another PCI-E slot, however as it is not posting, it is more likely to be power, memory or CPU based than graphics.

Short circuit somewhere?

Show us some specs of the hardware.

all the best, andy.
 
Its :

corsair 800D case,
corsair 850W Power supply,
crosshair formula IV mobo,
AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core 965 Black Edition "125W Edition" 3.40GHz (Socket AM3) swiftech D5(?) pump
OcUK Value GeForce GTX 480 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
EK HF Supreme CPU block
EK 480 GTX Full cover waterblock with backplate

I am a bit concerned that theres a problem with the CPU, I might have damaged it mounting the block or overtightening, so I will swap it out for the old Phenom I tonight, guess I just need to transplant the components over to the working machine and test test test!

Wish I was at home doing that rather than at work doing pretty much nothing :)
 
You have four diagnostic LED's on this mobo, CPU DRAM VGA and BOOT DEVICE, is there any info there? there is also a MEM OK button
You also have voltage diagnostics which are coloured LED's and also solder dots to multimeter the voltages on the board.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/ASUS-Crosshair-IV-Formula-Motherboard/988

see also the bit on ROG connect using the supplied USB cable to connect to a 2nd PC or laptop for diagnosis.

regards, andy
 
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Awesome. I have a laptop ( this one! ) running Ubuntu - maybe I can connect with that.

Bit of research will at least give me something to do whilst the Oracle Engineer feverishly attempts to mend the Exadata box.

-Ed.
 
Have a look through all your power cables, unplug them all, then plug them all back in again one by one, make sure you haven't missed any, and make sure that you don't get the 8pin CPU power connect (on the mobo) mixed up with an 8pin PCI-E power connector on your gfx card.
 
Hi all.

Schoolboy error. I somehow, in my entheusiasm had not seated the CPU correctly. Lucky escape and it's all up and running now. "Stable" at 4GHZ / 32 degrees C.

Caveat on the stability 'cause OCCT has only run for ten minutes or so, planning to run a proper test overnight.

Guess my next question is about the RAM rating. It's G.Skill RipJaws 2000MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Kit, 8GB of it, but the system has real issues with me attempting to run it at 2000Mhz. In fact it's not even happy with 1600MHZ. 1333 is about all it will boot at.

When I say 2000 by the way that's 2000 MHZ in the BIOS settings - using either D.O.C.P or tweaking about with the bus and multiplier to get the RAM up to 2000Mhz

The Mobo has a nice little traffic lights system going on up by the 24pin mobo power connector so I can see it bailing out at the RAM config.

I have read that this memory is more suited to the Intel platform, so I am thinking that it might be a bum call to have put it in an AMD based system.

Timing wise it's currently its running at 9/9/9/24. The SPD says 7/7/7/19 so might be able to get some improvement there.

Additionally CPU-Z, on its memory page is telling me that the northbridge frequency is 2006.8MHZ ... now, is that telling you guys that the RAM is actually running up at its rated speed and I am a noob or, is it there for some other reason its put it up there?

Cheers.

-Ed.
 
Intel / AMD will use the ram equally well. Suggest you look at the voltage on the ram, it may be set to 1.5V default. 1.6 to 1.65V is OK and I find that 1600Mhz+ requires 1.62V at least. Northbridge frequency at 2000 is standard and will be 10 x 200 if your FSB is 200MHz. On boot, the DDR frequency may report 1333 however any changes to the default frequency will be shown in CPUz. You should get 1600MHz (8 x 200) easily but 2000MHz will require a higher FSB unless you can get a higher multiplier than 8 on this mobo.

regards, andy
 
Thanks Andy,
The default RAM voltage is about 1.52 ish I think from memory.

So I should not worry too much about the speed reported at boot - trust CPUz instead. Good!

One question I have - where am I looking for this x8 multiplier. I assume you are not talking about the CPU multiplier here - which can be set anywhere from x2 to x30 or so on the mobo.

I will RTFM for a bit ( at least that looks vaguely like work! ) and see if I can post any sensible info on what BIOS options I have to play with.

-Ed.


Sadly I am back at work so I can't play with the machine right now.
 
The issue you are having with the ram is normal as you have 8GB installed. To run the ram at a higher speed you will need to make sure the ram voltage is set to manufacturer's recommendations (probably 1.65v) & also increase the voltage of the cpu northbridge (listed as CPU NB in the bios). Try setting the ram speed to 1600mhz in bios and raise the cpu nb to 1.25v & see if it will boot & is stable. If it is then raise the ram speed again & test stability. Repeat until you either reach the rated ram speed or it becomes unstable. If it becomes unstable then raise cpu nb voltage again. Up to 1.3 volts is safe & you can probably go slightly higher if needed. You will also need to keep an eye on cpu temperatures and make sure they dont go above 60C (this is cpu temp not core temps use everest ultimate, or the asus software to read this as I know they show the correct temperatures).

Let us know how you get on later & if you have any issues. I have the same cpu & mobo so will help as much as I can with settings but I only have 4gb of ram installed so cant test settings for 8gb before letting you know.
 
Cheers dude I will have a go when I get back in home in about .... woo 2.5 hours!

The rig is water cooled so it's not likely to get up to 60C, I think the highest it got yesterday was 40 running OCCP CPU test.

Cheers all. Keep the advice coming on account of this being my first little trip into proper clocking :)

-Ed
 
Hey all.

Ok so we are up at 4.1 GHZ and I am encountering a windows crash along the lines of P_F_N list Corrupt.

Wondering what part of the system this is talking about, ok so its got to be something about moving disk data to the CPU and processing it, on account of the lack of magic pixies my brother / father / insert-family-member-here believe are responsible for making their PC work, but is it possible to get a little more specific here?

Someout out there has got to have seen this! It's windows 7.

cheers.

<edit> a quick googling suggests this is memory related, although disk is mentioned and its worth mentioning that windows is on a Corsair SSD so, I dunno, power?</edit>

-Ed.
 
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I am not sure what that error means (never seen it before) but can you post your bios settings & voltages so we can try to see if something is not set correctly, or if a vlotage is to low. Without knowing your settings it will be very hard to let you know what the problem could be or what to change to try & fix it.
 
More information! Core 3 unhappy, voltages etc.

Hey all.

Ok heres some actual information first from CPUz

CPU
Processor: AMD PhenomII X4 965 "Deneb"
Processor Coe Voltage: 1.404V
Core Speed: 4138.9 MHz
Multiplier: 16.5
Bus: 250.9
HT Link: 2006.8

Memory
DRAM Freq: 1003.4
FSB : DRAM 1:4
Timings 10/10/10/30. Bank Cycle 40 Command rate 1T​

Now stuff from AMD Overdrive on Voltages
CPU VID : 1.3500v
NB VID: 1.1000v
DRAM Voltage: 1.65v
.VDDA Voltage: 2.500v
HT Voltage: 1.200v
NB Voltage 1.100v
VDDPCIE Voltage: 1.113v
.VDDR voltage: 1.206v​

CPU NB Multiplier its saying is 8X
PCIE Clock is 100

This looks ok, although I have taken 6GB of memory out and I am using one stick in bank 1 to test with. OCCT Can run for a few minutes happily, although when I run it longer its almost ALWAYS core 3 that reports an error with a lovely quacking sound.

If I crank the system up any higher, which I am doing via the multiplier as the bus speed would take the RAM up above 2000 it POSTS quite happily up to 4.5 GHZ but if allowed to carry on into windows I get blue screens, usually with some memory related fault (attempt to write to read only memory, page fault in unpaged area...etc)

I am reasonably happy with the machine thus far but given I am absolutley certain this is not a CPU temperature issue I am looking to go even further. The RAM has no direct cooling other than case airflow ( and its heatsinks ) and the motherboard has no direct cooling other than the stock stuff bolted onto it.

Ideas for further progress anyone?

-Ed.
 
Increase your cpu voltage by 1 notch in the bios and test for stability again. If that doesnt get it stable then increase by one more notch which should be enough.

If it is always core 3 that fails first then that is the weakest core in the processor. Once you get the cpu stable then we can start looking at getting the rest of your ram in the system and getting that stable as well. For some reason I thought you has one of the 6 core phenoms but just noticed that you have a quad core so the ram may be harder to get stable at its default speed at the quad core memory controllers are not quite as strong at the 6 cores. Also can you post the max cpu temp when running occt so we can get an idea of how much headroom you have left as you will need to raise cpu northbridge voltages to get the ram stable which will add to the heat generated.
 
Cheers for the advice. I will have a crack at this next time I have access to the machine (I'm a contractor away from home, flying back up north today and wont be back until Monday!)

The max temp I have seen in OCCP thus far is about 39C so I should have plenty headroom left. I am also debating getting some more air cooling onto the NB and RAM.

Cheers dude.

-Ed.
 
hey all.

First off thanks for the posts. Got some time now so I am sitting here with the box and following the advice. will post when I get to a limit, see what can be done about it!

-Ed.
 
ok heres where I am at:

'FSB' 'Core clock' 'multiplier' 'RAM Freq' 'HT Link speed' 'pcie speed' 'Core Volt' 'Ram Volt' 'NB Volt' 'RAM Timings' 'cpu speed' 'cpu temp idle'
200 17 AUTO AUTO 100 1.35 1.55 1.111 9/9/9/24 3400
200 18 AUTO AUTO 100 1.35 1.55 1.111 9/9/9/24 3600
200 20 AUTO AUTO 100 1.35 1.55 1.111 9/9/9/24 4000 34
200 21 AUTO AUTO 100 1.35 1.55 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 AUTO AUTO 100 1.37 1.55 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 AUTO AUTO 100 1.384 1.55 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 AUTO AUTO 100 1.384 1.575 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1067 AUTO 100 1.384 1.575 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1333 AUTO 100 1.384 1.575 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1666 AUTO 100 1.384 1.6 1.111 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1666 AUTO 100 1.384 1.6 1.115 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1666 AUTO 100 1.396 1.614 1.143 9/9/9/24 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1666 AUTO 100 1.396 1.614 1.143 10/10/10/30 BSOD BSOD
200 21 1666 AUTO 100 1.396 1.614 1.143 10/10/10/30 Nearly ! Nearly!
205 20.5 1640 AUTO 100 1.389 1.621 1.15 10/10/10/30 BSOD BSOD
205 20 1680 AUTO 100 1.389 1.65 1.164 11/11/11/30 BSOD BSOD

So ... 4ghz is okish. hasnt passed any great stability test as yet but I would think this kit can go further.
 
Once we get the cpu stable (you should be able to get between 4 & 4.2 ghz) we can look at raising the cpu nb speed (can give a nice performance increase). With the ram I think you might have to keep it at 1600 mhz and tighten the timings rather than try to raise the speed once the cpu is stable.

Try these settings to start with and see if its stable:

FSB: 200
CPU Multi: 20
RAM Frequency: 1600
HT Link: 100 (2000 actual speed)
CPU NB: 100 (2000 actual speed)
PCIe: 100
Core Voltage: 1.38
CPU NB Voltage: 1.2 (if only 1 stick of ram if 2 1.25v, 4 sticks might require 1.3v)
RAM Timings: 9-9-9-24
RAM Voltage: 1.65

If it boots into windows run 10 passes of intel burn test and let us know if it passes or fails & max temps.
 
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