• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Anyone built a machine with a J1800 or J1900?

longplay

longplay

longplay

Associate
Joined
26 Apr 2014
Posts
56
These are the new dual and quad-core Celeron onboard things. Mobo, chip and fanless heatsink for £50 doesn't sound bad, plus 10W TDP.

They sound perfect for a low-power server, maybe even a HTPC, but can't see anyone build a runner yet.

The only drawbacks seem to be that the BIOS of most boards is set to Win 8 only (UEFI/fast boot or whatever) and needs to be flashed to support others, and the commonly found mobos only have a couple of SATA ports. Supermicro seem to offer one with 6, but doesn't look like they sell in the UK.

Anyway, low power machine, but more capable than an Atom, and cheap. What's not to like?
 
I've been looking at these for a htpc build for a friend , but also the new Amd Am1 platform.

This makes an interesting read :-

http://www.techspot.com/review/806-amd-kabini-vs-intel-bay-trail-d/

Both platforms seem well suited for a budget media box or a budget desktop, its a shame that both platforms seem limited to only 2 sata ports as these would also make perfect low cost home storage boxes, but saying that you can't really blame them as these would price the more mid range platforms out of the market.
 
darket said:
This makes an interesting read :-

http://www.techspot.com/review/806-amd-kabini-vs-intel-bay-trail-d/
Click to expand...

Strangely enough I just finished reading that article in its entirety twenty minutes before clicking on this thread.

The power consumption figures surprised me, especially at idle; seems that the Haswell based G3220 (25W) actually idles lower than the Bay Trail-D (27W) and Kabini (27-28W) based solutions.

Disappointing to be honest.

darket said:
its a shame that both platforms seem limited to only 2 sata ports as these would also make perfect low cost home storage boxes
Click to expand...

There are a few AM1 boards with four, although they're generally a little more expensive.
 
tbh said:
Strangely enough I just finished reading that article in its entirety twenty minutes before clicking on this thread.

The power consumption figures surprised me, especially at idle; seems that the Haswell based G3220 (25W) actually idles lower than the Bay Trail-D (27W) and Kabini (27-28W) based solutions.

Disappointing to be honest.



There are a few AM1 boards with four, although they're generally a little more expensive.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've seen numbers for bay trail vs low power Haswell's but bay trail and kabini use WAY less power than most of those systems there.

The issue is reviewer stupidity mostly, psu's. Benchmark a range of systems with a 500 or 1000W psu and at the bottom end the psu is so inefficient below the 5% capacity mark that you've got the psu effecting the power usage.

I think it was pcper, /looks it up


http://www.pcper.com/news/Editorial/AMD-AM1-Retested-60-Watt-Power-Supply

Their first review showed "meh" numbers, the retest with a psu designed for much lower power usage showed completely different numbers.

12W idle with a 60w power adaptor and 23W idle using a 500W atx psu.
29W load with the 60W and 37W load with the atx psu.

The problem with testing is that most websites use a standard setup.

It could also be argued if some of the higher end cpu's wouldn't also show better idle numbers with a better psu, and that is likely the case, but you can't really get around needing a psu that serves the maximum power you'd be using very well and efficiency at idle(with a low enough idle system) will be effected.

With a Kabini/bay trail system you'd seriously want to think about how you power it to get real efficiency out of it.

Kabini seems in general a little better power wise than Baytrail, at least in home systems.

I think it's Toms that had the 25W Kabini using 21W average during a 3dmark run while the 10W(lol) Intel comparable bay trail chip used 19W average in the same test.

Bay trail categorically uses way beyond it's rated numbers when it's powered up and Kabini uses way way below what you think it would idle given it's tdp rating. Which chip actually uses less power is a fairly difficult question.

Really poor reviewing in general. Would like to see an absolute minimal desktop system on a say 150W psu and get some idle numbers from the lowest power Haswell/Kaveri, and idle numbers on maybe a 40W power adaptor for Kabini/bay trail and see how they all come out. That no one has done it yet is pretty stupid.

I'd certainly lean towards one of the mobo's that comes with a power adaptor connector instead/as well as a atx psu connector.
 
I had a fanless 300w Silverstone ATX PSU in my HTPC until yesterday, it was on the way out (worked fine when on, but wouldn't wake the system from sleep anymore).

So I swapped it for a 160w PicoPSU.

Hardly empirical testing, but it idles about 6-7w lower and during playback of a recorded program about 8w lower.

Not much, but that equates to about an 11% drop.

Not bad for an old 5050e (45w) with five HDDs (all spun down, granted).
 
drunkenmaster said:
Their first review showed "meh" numbers, the retest with a psu designed for much lower power usage showed completely different numbers.

12W idle with a 60w power adaptor and 23W idle using a 500W atx psu.
29W load with the 60W and 37W load with the atx psu.
Click to expand...

Interesting, and much more in-line with the kind of numbers I was expecting.

Looks like the PSU is the "bottleneck" then when it comes to efficiency in very low power systems; to be fair I should have realised something was up when they were all idling at more or less the same wattage.

drunkenmaster said:
With a Kabini/bay trail system you'd seriously want to think about how you power it to get real efficiency out of it.
Click to expand...

The problem is that nobody seems to make quality, high efficiency low wattage power supplies, which seems crazy because I'm sure there is a market for them; I'd love to be able to buy an 80+ gold ~120 watt mini-ITX PSU but such an item doesn't exist.

longplay said:
I had a fanless 300w Silverstone ATX PSU in my HTPC until yesterday... I swapped it for a 160w PicoPSU.

Hardly empirical testing, but it idles about 6-7w lower and during playback of a recorded program about 8w lower.
Click to expand...

Seems to support what DM was saying above, very interesting.
 
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/533...heap-desktop-platforms-power-consumption-idle

I got it wrong, wasn't Tom's but this website doing the testing of Kabini vs various other things, apparently using the 150W picopsu as it happens.

The Kabini is scoring 2,392 in 3dmark at 21.7w vs 1,605 at 19.6W for the J1900. You're getting a heck of a lot more performance for the wattage.

Idle is significantly lower on the Kabini system 9.6W vs 16.8W. Slightly ridiculous as Beema/Mullins are set to reduce idle and load usage significantly with basically either the same or higher performance at 15W Beema vs a 25W Kabini.

In cinebench you have Kabini with a score of 2 at 26.3W vs 1.8 21.1W in for the J1900. There Kabini doing less well in per watt performance, although again Beema should change that noticeable.

Without knowing every code name for chips these days the A6 5400k only getting 1.5 in Cinebench threw me till I realised it was a dual core chip making it far less bad than I thought :p

The Kabini chip beats a J1900 in the majority of tests, with only power usage in gaming or a fully multithreaded test it's a bit of a shame to not have a power comparison in something single threaded, light usage. Considering the lower idle and close load I would think an AMD chip will use less in general and considering you have that bit more performance there I would go that way.

Not sure how long till Beema would be available as it will likely make Kabini the very easy choice.

The one thing you can really tell from these numbers is that TDP is a bit of a joke.

AFAIK for similar money you would get better idle, better overall performance and better mobo's(more ports/connectivity though you may not need it).

Had to look it up as I was sure I saw it advertised somewhere. The asrock mini itx board has the atx and dc power connectors so you can run it off a 19v laptop power adaptor. I can't find any power/efficiency comparisons though. I do wonder if a 40-60W power adaptor wouldn't be even more efficient, they might not be.


Either way with baytrail or AMD if you go for an ultra low power chip it's well worth making sure you couple it with the best low power efficient PSU.
 
tbh said:
The problem is that nobody seems to make quality, high efficiency low wattage power supplies, which seems crazy because I'm sure there is a market for them; I'd love to be able to buy an 80+ gold ~120 watt mini-ITX PSU but such an item doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Given the fact that so many mini-ITX cases support a full-size ATX PSU, I'm still amazed no one is selling a sub-200w 80+ model. The lowest I could find in a quick scan was 300w, and to go fanless (like my old Silverstone), you're looking at 400w.

I've been unimpressed with the idle power on the AMD chips I've bought (largely because they were cheaper/offered something the Intel ones at the time couldn't).

Mind you, that might be because of the UK power supply being higher to start with (I never got close to Jeff Atwood's power consumption on my AMD build, and I'm envious of the current gen).

I'd certainly like to see more UK-based reviews that compare idle power. Maybe we should start some sort of submission list where we can build a database of power draws.
 
I have a 90w PicoPSU (lowest with a P4 connector) and 84w brick to replace the stock unit in my ISK 300-65 (actually a 135w PSU with a 65w brick).

Will be interesting to see if it lowers the idle usage.

(Bought, incidentally, because I've had a few random shutdowns, probably only a dozen or so in three years. I assumed they were because I was overloading the brick -- my system idles at 45w, so no inconceivable it would overload it -- but subsequent reading suggests the factory power supply is junk and it may well be that.)
 
Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but after 3 months is there any clarity on what's a good low power combo to get? I was looking at the J1900 but the G3220 has almost identical power consumption and roughly the same price.

No gaming just a solid NAS running WSE2012 what would you guys recommend?
 
Tornado54 said:
Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but after 3 months is there any clarity on what's a good low power combo to get?
Click to expand...

No shame there, didn't realise there was a baytrail board available until just now :)

Would also be interested in opinions on this. Fancy building a no-moving-parts media player, so lowest possible power while still giving HD playback would be the goal for me.
 
I decided to replace my 4050e system with a 5350.

I went AMD as they offered a mATX option with more PCI-E slots, which I needed for my HD tuner card and a SATA header card to expand the measly two onboard ports (there are some boards with four - an ASRock I think - but I needed six).

So, I have five HDDs (1*2.5" WD Blue, 4*3.5" WD Green) and an optical drive. I was running it off a 120w PicoPSU with an 84w brick, but currently running off the PSU out of an Antec ISK 300-65 and its 65w brick.

Boots fine, but wall power monitor suggests it spikes to ~90w at startup (I leave it on). With everything spun down it idles at 28-30w. Watching TV/a movie won't push it much above 35w.

For comparison, the old system idled at ~50w.

The stock cooler isn't silent, but fairly quiet (I have all the sides off the case currently and haven't noticed it from a few feet away).

I haven't been able to find any aftermarket coolers yet, but considering I ran my 4050e using a fanless Mini Ninja (and a couple of case fans), I'll hold out for a passive solution.

Feels at least as snappy as my old system (maybe better), records HD no problem, plays back ripped Blu-rays no problem.
 
I have been asking overclockers to stock the Am1 boards for about a month but i dont think there interested perhaps not enough profit for them.

Some other uk sellers already have some stock
 
longplay said:
I decided to replace my 4050e system with a 5350.

I went AMD as they offered a mATX option with more PCI-E slots, which I needed for my HD tuner card and a SATA header card to expand the measly two onboard ports (there are some boards with four - an ASRock I think - but I needed six).

So, I have five HDDs (1*2.5" WD Blue, 4*3.5" WD Green) and an optical drive. I was running it off a 120w PicoPSU with an 84w brick, but currently running off the PSU out of an Antec ISK 300-65 and its 65w brick.

Boots fine, but wall power monitor suggests it spikes to ~90w at startup (I leave it on). With everything spun down it idles at 28-30w. Watching TV/a movie won't push it much above 35w.

For comparison, the old system idled at ~50w.

The stock cooler isn't silent, but fairly quiet (I have all the sides off the case currently and haven't noticed it from a few feet away).

I haven't been able to find any aftermarket coolers yet, but considering I ran my 4050e using a fanless Mini Ninja (and a couple of case fans), I'll hold out for a passive solution.

Feels at least as snappy as my old system (maybe better), records HD no problem, plays back ripped Blu-rays no problem.
Click to expand...

Whats the model of your 84w brick ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom