Anyone else busted their ACL

[pabloB]

Hi there,

Last September I took a quite a harsh tackle during a football match, I fell backwards and landed on my neck - basically my right leg went with me my me left stayed planted on the ground - my L knee swelled up like a ballon and eventually I had to see a specialist where it was discovered i had damaged my Anterior Cruciate ligament. Worse was to follow following an MRI and an Arthroscopy it was discovered I had a full blown rupture.

I'm scheduled to have an op on the 31st of this month whereby they'll graft some of my Patella tendon and a small part of bone and the ligament will be recontructed.

Has anyone suffered a similar injury - I'm aiming to be back on the football pitch in August as I understand the physio work after is especially hard, considering muscle wastage. I was also embarking on a weights programme - basically trying to improve myself and obviously this is now shot to bits.

Just wondering what the post op situation is going to be like and the follow up physio.

Cheers

Paul

 

[pabloB]

Cheers for the posts chaps!I'm not down about it as it's just one of those things i'm 30 now so i'm expecting a few injuries these days. I'm very sporty by nature which helps and the physios have told me my leg is in good shape at the moment! Basically I'm under orders to train hard at the mo to get a higher level of stability in the knee so the hit isn't so big after the op which makes sense! Unfortunetly it's just an area that is going to be rather unstable for a while (as the new ligament osrts itself out!!)

The surgeon has said 6 months but i've added a month to that. Luckily my meniscus (Cartilage) is in a1 shape which is a god send - as I don't think I would have bothered with the op if that was written off to!

Looks like that DS Lite I got for xmas will be used a fair bit over the next few months! lol.

Still look forward to hearing from anyone that has suffered a similar injury!

Cheers Paul

 

[pabloB]

Blimey some tough injuries there guys! I'm very lucky to have Private Medical Insurance through work so things have moved pretty quick.

You guys that have had op's what was the procedure used?? Another popular thing seems to be to use part of the hamstring.

It's strange that swimming has been mentioned at this stage my surgeon has said that's one of the worst things to do, i'm pleased as swimming bores the hell out of me!

odoliam thanks for your account of your recoveries - i'm pleased you seem to be doing ok I've been told I'll need 2 - 3 weeks off work too - luckily I'm connected into my office from home so don't think it's quite as disastrous for them!! My injury is similar to the famous Gazza one and also Van Nisselroy suffered just before his move to Manure.

DOC your injury sounds very severe -luckily all my other ligaments and cartillage are ok. I'll keep playing for as long as im able - i'm not ready for the golf course yet!!

Cheers Guys

 

[pabloB]

yup, same here. Private medical insurance through work
I think the bill up to now is about 10k with the rest of the physio left to go so I'm bloody glad of it!

Keyhole surgery...one large 2" incision slightly below the knee cap and to the inside of the leg then 3 small access/observation holes above this. I noticed one or two other small cuts/puncture holes above my knee on my thigh - apparently these come from the clamps they use sometimes!!
The theory as it was described to me - you have 4 ligaments running up your hamstrings and really only need two of them so they harvest one, double it up twice and then screw into place.
The worst bit is the ~2" incision just below your knee which they use for re-attachment is also the one they use to poke all the way up your hamstring to cut the top of the ligament - makes for a very sore hamstring afterwards!! and lots of bruising behind the knee - mostly I guess as the blood drains there as I had my leg level a lot of the time.
Also, expect to lose sensation on the skin around some parts of the knee - can last for some months. Really just a bit numb to touch.

A friend of mine did his ACL years ago as well as his cartilage - they just cut the lot out and left him with no ACL or cartilage - my surgeon said that was the norm back then (10 years ago) but is now looked upon as butchery!!
Amazing how quickly this type of surgery is developing - thank goodness for valuable footballers falling over and spending loads of money to investigate the best way to repair it!

Edit:
On the swimming - my surgeon and physio differ on this big time!! Surgeon say free-style is OK, def not breast stroke. Physio deferred to the surgeon's wisdom and bigger pay packet, but reckons it is way to early as it is essentially quite a tough open-chain exercise

Shocking how much it costs isn't it!! My MRI was about £500. 1st Arthroscopy about £1k
I'm quite pleased he's leaving my hamsring alone I'd rather the Patella and keep it all localised, they just graft the centre of tendon and it repairs it self. Apparently 2 holes are drilled into each leg bone and the new ligament in screwed into place. I'm thinking that my incision will be a little larger than 2" but who know these days - still it'll go nicely with my 6" scar on my arm lol!! Wish I'd done the Posterior CL apparently much less aggrevation!!

Have been warned about the numbness but as the nerves grow back so should the feeling.

Roll on the 31st lol!!!

One quick question - did your knee click a lot? Mine seems too

 

[pabloB]

Really !! Well I'll settle for the clicking if it works!!

 

[pabloB]

ouch that sounds bad! I currently have Patellar Tendonotis (chronic) in BOTH knees at the mo! Can't play volleyball on them now looks like I'll have to get them operated on this year by the sounds of it too...

Otherwise known as jumpers knee - change sports mate and get some anti inflammatories!! Surgery can't really assist you At least givem them some rest

 

[pabloB]

haha not so simple I haven't played volleyball for 9 months now because of it... or badminton.... i only do football once a week now (and they were rested for 3 months over summer - so that doesn't help!!)

Anti inflammatories don't work know because it's got so bad, it's chronic now.... just pain all the time.

I don't want the surgery because it isn't proven to actually improve the condition... no real options

I'm up for MRI scan soon and maybe they will try high-intesity ultrasound depending on what exactly is going on...

Totaly agony though... stairs are a nightmare! With it being both as well I'd be out of all sports/etc for like 8-10 months maybe a year and that would just kill me....

Thats bad news mate sorry to hear it's that bad!! Guess see what the professionals have to say

 

[pabloB]

actually the surgery may never have been offered because well.... it's not actually proven to really work!! that's why I'm worried about it... I'm quite a good volleyball player and play(ed) competitvely but being only 6foot exactly I needed a big jump for spiking and blocking (which I had! I could soaarrr like an eagle lol) ... but not anymore with my knees being so bad... if i had the surgery then they told me, btw you will not be playing volleyball again mate no luck - i'd be just totally gutted...

but anyway next hospital is on 5th february so hopefully i'll start getting MRI scan to see the extent of the damage!

My surgeon asked for my expectations and whilst it may be foolhardy on his part to advise on that type of thing pre op I admire his confidence in my abilty to come back and play football and his faith in his own ability. One thing I might not be able to do is ski which is something I might have wanted to do in the future but we'll see how it goes! Get the MRI done asap - I couldn't believe the detail that show up on those MRI scans! You might get an arthroscopy after to double check what exactly damage is but see what you medical people tell you.

I guess that what you do in terms of jumping must take a massive toll on your knees - I wish you all the best mate.

 

[pabloB]

Well 60 hours after my op i'm bored as hell!

Positves are I haven't had too much pain yet but movement is limited and the knee feels extremely stiff but i'm course I'm not expecting much at the moment! lol Started soem physio the afternoon after my op which I thought was a bit soon but who am I to argue with the experts.

Gotta sit on my Gym ball tomorrow - never thought I see such a thing as a big step forward lol.

Physio session on Tuesday Lords knows what's in store for then!!

Incision is also a fair bit longer than I thought it would be - A good 5" and about 25 staples - nice!! Still it was nice to be in and out in a day.

Knee is alo massive, I've been given an ice machine so using that for 1 hour on 1 hour off as advised! It's bloody good actually and feels bloody marvellous when it's on!

odoliam how's your rehab going?

 

[pabloB]

Rude not to post pictures...

odoliam Docaroo how's your progress

 

[pabloB]

holy...nuts!
that's one big hole in your leg - and the staples!! wow

Mine was nothing compared to that...I had a 2" incision and 3 small holes with simple plastic stitching in it. Mine was a lot more swollen than yours though!

I've started doing lots of strength work now - am doing hamstring and quad curls in the gym as well as presses. Still on low weights but it's a sudden change in training methods. I'm told after 4 months you can get stuck in - obviously taking care as you go and build up slowly.
After a gym session it's amazing how strong my leg feels - typical early big gains I guess as in any weight lifting! With the cold weather it's feeling very stiff though.
I'm not hurrying it though. I planned for the summer to be pretty much back to normal and the surgeon said that was a sensible target....mind you, have decided to do my motorbike test soon as I need some excitment as sport is out for a while yet! lol

He also asked me before the op (and everytime after that I meet him) what my goals are post-op. I said back to where I was before the tear, able for anything and he seems to think that is achieveable.

Liam

Sounds like you're making good headway mate thats good to see.Scar is longer than I thought but I needed a graft taken from mt Patella tendon so guess that's why, was also expecting the scar to be higher up! This is just shy of a week after so the swelling has reduced I hope from what it was!

How long did it take to get full flexion back in your leg, i'm at 85degrees at the mo

Can't wait just to get on the excercise bike for now lol! Pushing this gym ball back and forth is getting a tad boring!

 

[pabloB]

Hello Mate!

My recovery seems to be going ok, I'm now alomst 3 months post op but still taking things reasonably easy. The Consultant is very happy with it (saw him just over a week ago) and the graft has taken and it's pretty much back to normal. I've got numbness to the left of my kneecap which I still haven't got used to but that's no biggie.

My one on one physio stopped about 3 weeks ago and I now go to knee club every week at the hospital where I had the op - it's basically where 10 of us do circuits around their gymm with 3 Physio's on hand to check us over. I'm hopefully going to be running within the next couple of weeks which will be a result and then I've got angled shuttle runs to see how the twisting motion is.

Still haven't tried squatting in the gym but I'm doing wallslides without issue (like squats but with a gymball behind your back and you slide up and down the wall). Gave lunges ago thismorning actually and that seems ok but that was with bodyweight only no dumbells.

The only issue I've had was a fair amount of fluid around my kneecap which the consultant promply removed by sticking this outragoeus needle into it and sucked it out had it had this twice now - 1st time drew 50ml and the second 25ml and he's stuck some steroids in there which should stop any liquid coming back (it seems to have worked). Knee feels loads better for it.

Yes the long lay off is annoying especially as I run a team at work but wait until the physio satrts and you're doing very basic boring exercises - that's the bit that got me. I'm back in the gym now and progressively doing a bit more little by little.

Seeing the consultant next on June 6th where I'll hopefully get clearance to do something more exciting!!

The only thing I would say is get down the gym and work your legs as hard as possible too build up the muscles, so plenty of squats, lunges hammy curls etc etc. Trust me the muscle wastage following the op is staggering. Check that with your consultant first though as you injury maybe slightly different. Luckily my cartilage was all intact and no other ligaments were affected!


Any others questions shout.

 

[pabloB]

Thats good news - good luck with the recovery.
I did mine last wednesday and the consultant says its a possible terrible triad but perhaps just a sprained MCL as well. I need an MRI pre-op to confirm the exact damage to the other ligaments/miniscus and this will be next week. I have only just managed to start to put some weight on it at the moment (still on crutches) so I'll check with him after the MRI to see what excercises he thinks I should do. I have got a hinged brace for my knee today (£220 - ouch) which is a lot better at the moment and allows me to bend the knee and put some weight on it - much better than the one from A&E which basically just kept my leg straight. He has given me some minor excersies todo (i.e. lie on the bed and lift leg-hold for five seconds and repeat).

I work in an office so I am hoping I won't need much time off following the op - did you have many days off post op?

Initially I had an MRI which gave the most detailed pictures I've ever seen, amazing what goes on inside your knee. I also had an arthroscopy following the MRI which basically mean't the consultant stuck a camera in my knee (I've got a video of it lol) just to double check and to clean it out a bit. I'd be surprised if your chap didn't do this!!

Had a week off work following that (I'm also office based).

Following my actual graft op I had 3 weeks off work, and was on crutches for about 2.5 weeks of that. They'll get you doing exercises a few hours after the op but these are just basic leg raises and the like. Pain wise I have to say it was very good - didn't bother with the pain killers after about 3 days it ached more than actual pain but it was all very manageable.

I was in and out of hospital in a day and I think the op took about 90 mins but it might have been a bit longer.

Luckily I never needed cructches pre op or knee braces! Have you got private health cover?

Any other q's ?

 

[pabloB]

Mate of mine did his ligaments a few years ago, can't remember if it was anterior or posterior (I recall it was whichever is the worst of the two to do). Taking away the age he had to wait for the op, it was about 8 months after before he could even think about playing again.

yeah that sounds about right i'm hoping to be doing something football related in july time i.e. training and then play competitively in August - I guess only time will tell

 

[pabloB]

Basically it's one or the other and I don't think there's much if any difference between the two. I guess it keeps all the scarring local to the knee rather than having two sites one knee one in the hamstring area. Plus each Consultant is obviously settled in their own technique.

The only thing I have noticed is that my hamstring is bloody tight just through less activity so I would guess so make sure your careful when you're recovering - I'd bet money that'll be my next injury if I don't take the right procautions.

Anyway this is how my knee is looking as at 5 mins ago! Slightly better than at the end of January!!

You can see the difference in my quads although I'm slowly getting this back on the operated on knee - you can also see that there is still slight swelling and a little liquid around the kneecap but that will dissipate over the coming weeks! I've never got through so much ice in my life - you should get this natty little ice machine though that'll continually pump ice cold water around your knee to fight the swelling!

Yes Health Insurance is a God send I'd be in for around £7k by now

Good luck with your flying by the way! I can sympathise as I'm 6ft 4" Got a Ryanair jaunt in May - not looking forward to that at all! Still only 90 mins to Valencia I think!!

 

[pabloB]

Hello Mate,

They gave me the ice machine FOC (presume Insurance Paid for it) and a Gym Ball but no passive motion machine. If they don't give you an ice machine then defo buy one - worth the money!

From having the op to getting on a static bike I think was about 5 weeks, but I didn't feel confident enough to go to my gym on my own until about 7 weeks in.

I had 1 2 1 Physio for about 8 weeks and now go to what's called knee club at the hospital every Wednesday where we circuits around the gym they have there with 2 Physios looking over you.Just do leg presses, trampoline work,bike work, treadmill, rower & various gym ball excercises stretches.

Hit the 3 months mark last week and was able to run which was a great result although I still need to take this slowly.

Can also lunge, wallslide (poor mans squat) but these are all straight movements. Physio has told me not to do anything that involves twisting yet. I want to introduce swimming soon as my CV stuff at the gym is really sufferring although with more running hopefully that'll get sorted as I hate swimming!!

 

[pabloB]

I'll see what the ortho surgeon says on wednesday, my extension is fine at 0, but flexion is probably only about 110 so not quite there. I just wanna get the OP ASAP so I can start on the road (albeit a very long one) to recovery

How'd it go yesterday ?

 

[pabloB]

You'll just be able to have dinner the previous night! Nothing for brekkie though mate. Gotta have the usual 6 or so hours of nothing besides water before the general anasthetic I(why its better to have a morning op as you don't have to miss the day without food!! . You'll be able to have a cup of tea and a sarnie after though.
I was in at 7 and probably in the operating theatre by 8.30 was out by 5PM the day..

Good luck pal - hope it all goes to plan for you

 

[pabloB]

Thanks, I am getting a stock of ice packs, take away menus, tea flasks etc. Think I'll cancel the gym membership for 2mths

Supposed to be going to a wedding in mexico at the end of june (over 5 weeks after the op). I'll see what the surgeon says.

I'll be very surprised if he's happy to let you fly that soon! Thrombosis is a huge issue after the operation your about to have due to the lack of movement but hey see what the surgeon says!

 

[pabloB]

Evening mate, pleased to see the op went well.

I just took painkillers for about the first 3 days didn't need them after that and the Cocodamol was making me constapated lol!!

Was weight bearing albeit with crutches the same day as op but had to demonstrate to the physio's I could do the stairs and walk a little before i was allowed home. My first Physio app post op was 5 days.


My mum (whose a nurse) changed my bandages the first couple of times then the mrs took over when it had stopped weeping and looked a bit more presentable lol! Staples came out quite quickly 10 days i think (there are internal stitches that disolve).

Your main battle right now is the swelling, keep your leg up higher than your heart and use that cuff hourly on/off. I found the gym ball the best thing for putting my leg up on also had a fouton to lye on which helped loads & keep doing the excercises that have been given to you

The basic stuff is exceptionally boring but you've got to do it I'm afraid! Don't be too knarked if you take a little while to get full flexion back in your knee.

My rehab would appear to be going ok - still going to knee club every wed and doing loads of jumping/impact and trampoline work. The only agg i'm getting at the moment is out of my hamstring which I guess is just tight.

Also started taking glucosamine which seems to have assisted me although the jury still seems to out on this supplement.

Good luck for the next couple of weeks it's incredibly frustrating so hang in there!

My next OS app is June 6th where i'll be 17 weeks post op!!