Anyone else dab the gas on an upshift?

Stonedofmoo · 12 Dec 2006 at 19:12

Maybe there is a piece of wood under the pedal

I once did that to my housemate, he got really cross thinking I had broken his car when I borrowed it. Then he looked down and saw the wood cable tied to the pedal, he almost crashed he was laughing so much

mrk · 12 Dec 2006 at 21:07

Ken said:
Hi,

I can't stand unsmooth gear changes whether I'm the driver or passenger.

When in traffic, I shift early early before the torque is available. For example, when I'm in third which would be around 19 mph, I would shift into 4th at around 28 mph. This guarantees a smooth ride.

Now shifting early means I miss out on the torque band. So going round a country road or accelerating into a motorway or entering a dual carriageway I like to give it some.

I stay in each gear for longer for maximum acceleration but because of this, the speed is too fast for the next gear but to slow for the gear after that. Let me explain. Say I was in 3rd, I'd be flooring it to about 45mph, at which point 4th would be best to get maximum acceleration but 5th would be too weak.

Now to the point of this post.

Shifting into 4th from 3rd doing 45 mph would jerk the car as the revs matches the car speed obviously. What I do is dab the gas to the right number of revs so that 4th engages smoothly.

Does anyone else do this?

My 1st and 2nd are not as smooth as I'd like but they are still smooth, I find the Honda engines tend to behave exactly as you treat them (the throttle).

Mine will happily climb to 60-70 in 3rd and still shift into 4th or 5th smooth - I'd say 3rd is my cars magic gear, it's got enough torque in the low revs but it really kicks in around 3000rpm all the way to 6000.

2nd is similar but as mentioned earlier, it isn't smooth smooth, just normal and loud at above 2500rpm.

I usually always shift up at 2000rpm all the way up to 3rd then depending on the road and how open it is decide whether I should push to 3000 before shifting into 4th at 30-40mph or not, either way it stays smooth.

Good thing about those Honda engines I'd say.

Petrol consumption varies accordingly too, shift @ 2000rpm = 100 miles on 10 litres but shift at 3000+ and I get maybe 80 miles per 10 litres of fuel. I found this out the hard way when I accidently had no fuel left in the reserve one morning to start the car

edit*
Briefly reading the above few posts, mine takes no time at all to reach 4000rpm in 2nd

it will make a fair bit of noise doing so but it will easily pass 4k if you treat the throttle in that manner.

Nozzer · 12 Dec 2006 at 21:17

I cruise in 30mph zones, in the Elise, in 4th. It's not labouring the engine and there's no point using 3rd :confused:

mrk · 12 Dec 2006 at 21:24

Nozzer said:
I cruise in 30mph zones, in the Elise, in 4th. It's not labouring the engine and there's no point using 3rd

For your lightweight micromachine

Nozzer · 12 Dec 2006 at 21:32

I seem to recall doing it in the Audi too. Not driven the Passat recently so I can't remember if I use 3rd or 4th in that.

commited · 12 Dec 2006 at 21:33

Ken said:
Peak power is at 4000 rpm. Another 500 rpm and it's the redline.
It would take forever to reach 4000 rpm in 2nd. Most of the acceleration would have taken place early in the rev range and if you didn't shift, you would blow the engine I'm sure as it'd be impossible to reach such a high rpm in such a low gear. You'd also look a complete arse as the engine would be making such a racket urging you to change gear.

LOL.

I near redline my diesel daily. It's done 109k in 2 years and absolutely no problems. It takes next to no time to climb through the revs in first and second (in fact, after a stint in a petrol car, it always surprises me how quickly it revs out).

I've never driven the exact engine and gearbox combination in question, but i've driven an A4 110 tdi a fair bit, which I would assume comes from the same breed of engines, and it certainly doesnt take all day to reach a high rpm.

Are you sure you're using full throttle when driving?

NickXX · 12 Dec 2006 at 22:16

I've driven around at 30mph in 4th in every car I've ever driven which includes a 1.4l A-Class and 1.4l 306, there is no problem with it at all.

NickXX · 12 Dec 2006 at 22:20

Ken said:
This pretty much sums up everyone's feelings so I've quoted it and I'll say...

2nd up to peak power?!

Peak power is at 4000 rpm. Another 500 rpm and it's the redline.
It would take forever to reach 4000 rpm in 2nd. Most of the acceleration would have taken place early in the rev range and if you didn't shift, you would blow the engine I'm sure as it'd be impossible to reach such a high rpm in such a low gear. You'd also look a complete arse as the engine would be making such a racket urging you to change gear. Same is true with 3rd but not as "bad" as 2nd.

My point being contrary to dirtydog's post about changing gear at peak power, it's better, in my case anyway, to change gear soon after peak torque when you feel the acceleration lacking. That way when you shift the revs would have dropped back to peak torque when the next gear is engaged.

I don't really care about the original point of this thread...I'm more concerned about your posts that reflect what I quoted above and dirtydog's point.

This is a 6 gear diesel.

If it takes forever to reach the redline in 2nd then there is something wrong with your car. Certainly not the experience I had in my Mk5 Golf TDI.

mrk · 12 Dec 2006 at 22:21

NickXX said:
I've driven around at 30mph in 4th in every car I've ever driven which includes a 1.4l A-Class and 1.4l 306, there is no problem with it at all.

Indeed, it's also more economical.

My driving instructor even got everyone to drive in 4th at 30mph as did my dad and everyone else I know when driving on a normal road.

rpstewart · 12 Dec 2006 at 22:25

mrk said:
Indeed, it's also more economical.

My driving instructor even got everyone to drive in 4th at 30mph as did my dad and everyone else I know when driving on a normal road.

Not here - 5th @ 30mph = 1100rpm and about 60mpg

PMKeates · 12 Dec 2006 at 22:26

Ken said:
My point being contrary to dirtydog's post about changing gear at peak power, it's better, in my case anyway, to change gear soon after peak torque when you feel the acceleration lacking. That way when you shift the revs would have dropped back to peak torque when the next gear is engaged.

It's realisticly impossible for you to accelerate quicker by changing before the peak power point. What you feel is not real. 3-4000rpm in 2nd will be quicker than 2-3000rpm in 3rd. It will be. It may feel like it's going slow, but it isn't. UNLESS, your car is broken.

Conscript · 12 Dec 2006 at 22:55

rpstewart said:
Not here - 5th @ 30mph = 1100rpm and about 60mpg

Same, if its a 30mph but a relatively clear road....not a lot of cornering, changing speed, manoeuvring around parked cars etc....Ill happily cruise along in 5th gear, engine almost idling just keeping the momentum up. If I can see that Im going to need to accelerate and decelerate though, I'll down shift to 4th or maybe 3rd if the speed drops off

Edit: Apart from the 60MPG of course, best the Focus can manage is probably about 40MPG

timbob · 12 Dec 2006 at 23:10

My 106 likes 4th gear for 30mph, sits nicely in the "non-lugging" rev range.

My old cavalier hated it though. It would be barely above idle at 30mph in 4th, and would stutter if you eased onto the gas at all. 3rd gear at 30mph was only 1800rpm or so, so I used that. 2nd gear at 30 only used about 2600rpm as well, so would stay in 2nd if I was going downhill in a 30.

All depends on the gearing though. I know most TVR drivers stay in 2nd in 30 zones, as the engine is labouring in 3rd gear.

What annoys me is that the driving test stipulates that you have to use the first 4 gears in 30mph zones - what happens if you're taking the test in a car that is geared too high to be able to use 4th?

Ken · 14 Dec 2006 at 02:09

Ken said:
Sorry guys, I'm a bit ****ed up today.

^ Just in case anyone has missed it.

Ignore what I've said. Like I said, I was a bit messed up but now I'm OK and thinking and talking straight.

Dr Who · 14 Dec 2006 at 08:13

if the car jerks when you change up, you are coming too far off the throttle during the gearchange, or not far enough...

A smooth upshift is a combination of matching the throttle and clutch movements, something few people are good at, but it is relatively simple if you understand what the car is doing...

I passed my test 23 years ago in a ford anglia, and the examiner said my gearchanges were the best he had ever seen from such a young driver and I showed excellent mechanical sympathy

Smiley Man · 14 Dec 2006 at 08:24

judging by this thread do you guys reckon i'd be better doing 30 in 4th (1750rpm) or 3rd (2250rpm) and 40 in 5th (1750rpm) or 4th (2250rpm) in my 1.6 206?

i always use 4th at 30 and 5th at 40 (not for accelerating though)

my mum seems to sit at 50 in 4th :confused:

but can get to scotland and back on a thimble

ive tried 4th at 30 in my dads passat TDi and the engine sounds like its struggling (about 1100rpm) so i always use 3rd, mum lkes to use 4th though so its chugging along

ken - my mate regularly held his 1.9 diesel punto on the limiter in 1st and 2nd (5000rpm) and didnt blow up

dirtydog · 14 Dec 2006 at 08:27

It all depends doesn't it - on the car and the conditions. If you are maintaining 30 on a level road then most cars can do that in 5th probably - mine can. Yet for max acceleration you'd drop it down to second. If you are maintaining a speed then be in the highest gear you can be without the engine labouring basically.

Smiley Man · 14 Dec 2006 at 08:29

dirtydog said:
It all depends doesn't it - on the car and the conditions. If you are maintaining 30 on a level road then most cars can do that in 5th probably - mine can. Yet for max acceleration you'd drop it down to second. If you are maintaining a speed then be in the highest gear you can be without the engine labouring basically.

thanks

in 5th at 30 the engine does sound like its labouring a bit, and booting it just gives you some funny noises and no acceleration

Moeks · 14 Dec 2006 at 11:07

Ken said:
You can laugh and I am exaggerating with the blowing up thing but I know for sure it would take you forever to reach 4000 rpm in 2nd. You would have travelled a significant amount of distance if you shift rather then wait till 4000 rpm.

...and I drive a Lean TDI 130, the old VAG 1.9 unit and if it can do 4krpm in 2nd easily enough (yea it makes a noise and is really at the end of it's useful power band by that point, but it'll do it no problem) then I'm damn sure your 2.0 model will.

Slightly off topic, but NickXX,was that picture in your sig, taken at the 1st (may have been the 2nd I can't remember now but it was getting on for 3 years ago) OcUK rolling road down in Cheltnam by chance?...that black Leon on the round-about looks just like mine, could just be a coincidence I guess.

Lowe · 14 Dec 2006 at 12:53

Simon said:
Try it

Give up mate, you can't tell some people... I tried on a previous thread and got told I obviously can't drive...