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Are multi-gpu setups as bad as they used to be?

Are you SURE that was it Matt? He tried a lot to fix it IIRC :D.

I'd quietly confident it was. I can replicate it and i know for a fact this fix was not on the forum at time he had this issue. What would have been happening is his cards were throttling, causing both core speeds to downclock and create visible stutter. We were able to mitigate that when i was helping him to use RadeonPro and limit the fps which was bringing the card back within its TDP limits. I'm just annoyed that i didn't think of it at the time. We needed tommy back then but sadly he was no where to be found. :D
 
This would have fixed it.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18509458

I encountered a similar problem with a HIS 7950 ICE-Q Boost. The problem is the TDP limit is too low in the bios. A little too late i know but this will help anyone who has the same problem. Also confirmed by Tommy (infact he discovered it first) with his 7950 Boost xfire setup.

So it was nothing to do with crossfire or drivers on this occasion. The stutter was caused by an incorrectly set TDP limit in the bios.

Looks like a lot of faffing to get something that should work without any help... AMD dropped the ball letting that issue arise.
Also, with Matrix Platinum's you're stuck with GPU Tweak.
 
Looks like a lot of faffing to get something that should work without any help... AMD dropped the ball letting that issue arise.
Also, with Matrix Platinum's you're stuck with GPU Tweak.

You shouldn't have to do it i agree however its really simple to apply and certainly no major hassle. Its as easy as changing a letter and clicking import. As gpu-tweak has a Power Line setting the fix would work with that as it works with afterburner and his tool and it changes the power slider setting in CCC to expand the TDP limits. Not sure if the bios problem just affects a certain few AIB cards or whether its more widespread than that. Going by feedback id say its just a few particular brands. I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed tbh, you'd think AIB's would be aware of it and would at least offer a bios update and or ship cards with a new bios.
 
Looks like a lot of faffing to get something that should work without any help... AMD dropped the ball letting that issue arise.
Also, with Matrix Platinum's you're stuck with GPU Tweak.

+1

After using EVGA Precision X, I would never go back to GPU Tweak unless there is no choice.
 
I'm confused as to how this could be the resolution to the issue. It stuttered at stock clocks with 'force constant voltage' on and it stuttered the same amount when overclocked heavily.
I would expect it to stutter a lot less at stock than at a heavy overclock if it were a power issue.
Maybe a driver issue, maybe not. Either way AMD dropped the ball and all crossfire did for me was give me headaches.
GTX690 should've been my first choice tbh. I frickin' love this card, brilliant piece of design and engineering.
 
I'm confused as to how this could be the resolution to the issue. It stuttered at stock clocks with 'force constant voltage' on and it stuttered the same amount when overclocked heavily.
I would expect it to stutter a lot less at stock than at a heavy overclock if it were a power issue.
Maybe a driver issue, maybe not. Either way AMD dropped the ball and all crossfire did for me was give me headaches.
GTX690 should've been my first choice tbh. I frickin' love this card, brilliant piece of design and engineering.

The stutter will be occurring when the boost is activated and the massive voltage bump is applied. That's the reason, whether you want to accept it as the reason is up to you. The fact is if you had another 10% or more onto the TDP you wouldn't have had any down clocking.

I don't know if this is AMD's fault, it might be. It might also be possible that AIB's and in this case Asus used their own bios, as do HIS, and the TDP set is for the non boost version of the cards. I've had a look around and can't see any mention of this happening on AMD reference boost cards but those are pretty rare now a days.

I'm just explaining what your issues were and how they could have been solved rather than just blaming it on crossfire or poor drivers when in this case that is not the issue and neither of those had anything to do with it.

No hassle at all with 670 Sli worked perfect and gave good results. I gave up with 7950 crossfire after hours of issues.

You had Boost cards as well didn't you Moog?

I'm really surprised there's not more mention of this issue. Makes me think it must only affect a few specific AIB cards.
 
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There's a new method of benchmarking called FCAT regarding to frame intervals which merely says about smoothness in game.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6862/fcat-the-evolution-of-frame-interval-benchmarking-part-1

Tests prove that smoothness is better in multiGPU on nVidia actually:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6973/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-review/6

But clue is, every single our brain is different, so all the people can see differences (AMD vs nVidia) in different way, it's exactly the same with sound - how people hear it (22 kHz vs 44 kHz, 16-bit vs 24-bit, analog vs digital etc). All info come to brain and are processed there - and how - it depends on particular brain (capabilities). It's all similar here, but not the same. So - one of you might say "AMD multiGPU works like a charm", just because his brain is not able "to see" stuttering that other people can see exactly the same way like he is not able to see difference between 60Hz gaming and 85Hz gaming, for example. My point is - if you are able to see this difference, don't ask others, but look for scientific proofs, like FCAT - which maybe is not perfect, but AT LEAST it exists.
 
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I don't think you can be so sure Matt that it was definitely that. Perhaps but I wouldn't say definitely.

I can't say for sure obviously but im pretty confident it was. Its a shame neither still has the cards so i could be proved right. The fact Tommy noticed it and he had the same cards as Moogleys as well just confirms my suspicions even more. As well as what ive discovered from my own testing since getting my hands on the same card that Moog had. I'm able to compare the behaviour i see to what they reported and its identical.
 
You had Boost cards as well didn't you Moog?

Yes HIS 7950 Boost cards. The usage was up and down all over the place causing huge performance drops and stuttering. I managed to get semi decent results using non boost bios's but it was still not right so gave up and went 670 Sli.
 
My multi-gpu experiences are purely with nVidias SLi (had good experience with 3Dfx SLi too). I've been running SLi permanently since 2006 and the driver related issues I had solely concerning SLi you can count on one hand. I have only tried CrossFire and 3-way/4-way CrossFire (HD5970+HD5850+HD5830) for a very brief period around 2010, where it mostly ran quite good from what I experience at the time, though SLi seemed a bit "smoother".
 
Yes HIS 7950 Boost cards. The usage was up and down all over the place causing huge performance drops and stuttering. I managed to get semi decent results using non boost bios's but it was still not right so gave up and went 670 Sli.

Thanks Moog, that 100% confirms it for me. TDP incorrectly set in Bios is the culprit. Only solution is a bios flash or increasing the TDP limit using the fix Tommy posted.

Gpu usage will drop when the card throttles as the gpu clock is dropped rapidly to help keep the card within its TDP limit. I was seeing this on a single card let alone having two in crossfire. This is not a crossfire or driver issue though so blaming either of those is incorrect.
 
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I have been using 2 x EVGA 4gb GTX680's for some months now. There is good and bad. The good is the performance you get...just WOW!. I can max out all my games and play them at 1440 res. The bad is the noise and the heat generated....

My next project may be water cooling my system (CPU and GPU's).
 
The stutter will be occurring when the boost is activated and the massive voltage bump is applied. That's the reason, whether you want to accept it as the reason is up to you. The fact is if you had another 10% or more onto the TDP you wouldn't have had any down clocking.

But when you overclock, no boost is applied. "Boost" only applies at stock clocks, other wise it goes from 2D/Low power to max clocks.
Also when I locked full 3D clocks it happened, with force constant voltage as well, i had to test this because i initially thought it was dropping to 2D/Low power mode when stuttering, but this was not the case.

I don't know if this is AMD's fault, it might be. It might also be possible that AIB's and in this case Asus used their own bios, as do HIS, and the TDP set is for the non boost version of the cards. I've had a look around and can't see any mention of this happening on AMD reference boost cards but those are pretty rare now a days.

I'm just explaining what your issues were and how they could have been solved rather than just blaming it on crossfire or poor drivers when in this case that is not the issue and neither of those had anything to do with it.

It's AMD's fault because they let this happen on their cards. "Boost" is a feature of the 7970 GHz cards, they created the feature, they created the problem. Yes AIB's may of exacerbated the issue, but nevertheless it's a great disappointment on AMDs side to not of thought the feature through.

You're explaining what other's issues were and assuming it's the same for my setup. Whilst at the same time assuming that a rather messy and clunky set of instructions that pretty much start "Do this at your own risk" and require 3rd party software (that doesn't work for every card), is an acceptable solution for the indignant consumer. When in reality it isn't.

I chose, given my situation, that i wasn't going to faff around with cards that cost so much. I should "just work". So sold them on and got the better solution for my money.
Something that could have been avoided, if AMD had thought ahead for crossfire (and supposedly their boost function).
 
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Thanks Moog, that 100% confirms it for me. TDP incorrectly set in Bios is the culprit. Only solution is a bios flash or increasing the TDP limit using the fix Tommy posted.

Gpu usage will drop when the card throttles as the gpu clock is dropped rapidly to help keep the card within its TDP limit. I was seeing this on a single card let alone having two in crossfire. This is not a crossfire or driver issue though so blaming either of those is incorrect.

It's the boost bios and the stupid volts it whacks into the card. I did not get the issues with my XFX 7950's with a stock non boost bios. Even flashing the HIS cards does not completely fix the issue or did not for me anyway.
 
It would have fixed your problem with the Boost 7970 Rossi, i'll leave it at that. Glad you're happy with your 690 though.

Correct Moogleys. Wish i knew that at the time when i was trying to help you. At the time though i never realised the issue even existed as id never used a boost card myself at that point.
 
It would have fixed your problem with the Boost 7970 Rossi. I'll leave it at that. Glad you're happy with your 690 though.

With GPU tweak?...
You can leave it at that all you want, you're still assuming and have in fact just answered the OP's question i think.
 
With GPU tweak?...
You can leave it at that all you want, you're still assuming and have in fact just answered the OP's question i think.

It doesn't matter which overclock utility is used as the power line is built into CCC. As your card was throttling which was causing the stutter, this would have resolved that issue.

As i said its up to you whether you want to believe or not this would have fixed your problem. It doesn't really matter now anyway as you have a different gpu. I'm just offering an explanation to the problem in the hope that it might help others who have the same problem, although looking around there is very little mention of it.
 
I don't know why people go on about the power profile, my cards run at 1200/1800 and the power limit is set to default and I still don't get any throttling, only time I have seen it was using furmark.
 
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