Are we tackling cycle lanes wrong?

Country roads: All road users should pull over where safe to do so to allow faster vehicles to pass. Easy.

On the rare occasion that I venture onto the road on my bike I do this, it's easy to know when you're holding someone up and there's no excuse not to.
 
peterwalkley said:
Chester has been squeezing cars out for at least 45 years and now they wonder why the city centre is dying.
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It wouldn't even be that bad if the park and ride wasn't gash.


Just send the planers to manchester airport jet parks 2, that's how park and ride should work

cheesefest said:
Got a multi storey bike park opposite the Central Station.

One thing that puzzles me in Amsterdam is how do people know it’s their bike? As 98% look identical!
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It's OK 98% are stolen.
 
Mesai said:
The only way to fix the issue is to do what the Netherlands are doing and make cars 3rd class citizens. There's a video on the channel that was linked earlier showing how the traffic lights use sensors and prioritise buses, pedestrians and bicycles.

They would need to have enough cycle infrastructure to make it feasible for someone to comfortably use it as their primary day-to-day. They also need to build safe bicycle storage facilities.
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So the only way to fix it is to discriminate against the disabled?


That will be an interesting law suit :p
 
bigmike20vt said:
Oh and my pet hate (bear in mind Cambridge has a very good cycle lane system in many parts) is when cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane even when it is in good nick. I am aware some are better than others (though that said car drivers cant go in cycle lanes if there are pot holes in the road) so IF a cyclist could show the area where a copper pulled them over on a road next to a cycle path was dangerous then i would let them off ;)
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Have you wondered why they wouldn't use a cycle lane if its in good nick? I doubt they are doing it out of spite. Most cyclists want to be as safe as possible when on the roads. The reason cyclists don't use them sometimes is manyfold but usually comes down to speed and ease of use. Unless you are using those cycle lanes regularly yourself for casual and sports cycling then its hard to appreciate what its like to use them.

I don't use some cycle paths for the reasons I described in a post above and "cycle lanes" are at best an afterthought and plenty of them are barely even that. I haven't cycled in Cambridge but there will be a reason why someone might be cycling on the road right next to a cycle lane.

Cyclists are fundamentally horribly at risk and will always come off worse than a driver. Thats why cyclists should be protected as much as possible. There are far fewer idiots on bikes than idiots in cars and if you cycle in any built up area you will realise this. You are just much more protected in your car. When some idiot pulls out in front of me when I am driving I can slam on the brakes and even if I hit him I will be fine. I do the same on a bike and I will be far more scared or far more injured.
 
Cambridge - if you are cycling at 20mph+ using a cycle lane is a liability;
Are many of the cities with good cycle infrastructure those rebuilt since the war.

Poland's district/communal heating systems sound like a more interesting attribute at the moment.
 
bloodiedathame said:
Country roads: All road users should pull over where safe to do so to allow faster vehicles to pass. Easy.

On the rare occasion that I venture onto the road on my bike I do this, it's easy to know when you're holding someone up and there's no excuse not to.
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So at the weekend when I am riding my bike 50km I should stop around 100 times? If there is a long queue behind me and they can't overtake for a long distance I will stop and let them past. Otherwise they can wait the 30s until its safe to pass me like normal.
 
I just got back from mallorca.

After doing a few miles on a bike (including previous holidays) on roads there, the big difference is that drivers are more considerate there. They will wait to overtake and give you a wide berth when overtaking.

Uk drivers seem more aggressive and inconsiderate.

But that's just my opinion...
 
jpaul said:
Cambridge - if you are cycling at 20mph+ using a cycle lane is a liability;
Are many of the cities with good cycle infrastructure those rebuilt since the war.
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if you are cycling at 20mph on a cycle lane it is a liability....... because of slower users & / or junctions and what not?

then perhaps in those sections you should not be going 20mph...... Because at the same way that a cyclist going 20mph on an other wise clear road which is 50mph is equally a liability.

a persona on a bike is capable of going 20mph....... just like a person in a car is capable of going 70mph, it does not mean they *should* go that speed all the time just because they can. and yes i get that it may be frustrating having to speed up and slow down and watch out for pedestrians.

but no more so than having to get 20 miles to work but be stuck behind cyclists 2 or sometimes even 3 abreast in a queue of cars when there IS a clearly marked and reasonably maintained cycle lane a few m from them.

They do need to be better maintained. but so do our roads. if a cyclist hits a pothole on a dedicated cycle lane they face an injury, but if they hit a pothole on the A1301, a 50mph road with a lot of cars and lorries on, they face far worse.
As a car driver I DO try to be very aware of my surroundings, and i know if i hit a bike or motorbike they will come of worse, but equally if you are going to take a slow / vehicle without much protection on to a fast road with cars and lorries then the burden of care DOES kind of fall on you imo.... (unless the car driver is breaking the law, then they should be done... but it is still moot if they hit the cyclist/motorcyclist.)

*btw if i am coming across as an opinionated berk on this i apologise, no offence meant..... My wife hit a motorcyclist many years ago and broke his collar bone..... at the time his mates showed up and were VERY threatening, she was in bits........ apparently she was at fault accordign to them because she was in a car... and yet the motorcylist tried to under take her going right / 3rd exit in the left hand lane of the roundabout that she was taking 2nd exit going straight over.

yes she should have checked and double checked for (imo) prats undertaking, but imo she was not in the wrong - insurance sided with her at least but it still deeply upset her.*
 
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bloodiedathame said:
For your own safety.
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I don't think that getting off my bike that many times on a ride will make me any safer and there shouldn't be any danger being a cyclist on our roads outside of stupid things a cyclists may do or things that are unavoidable. We need more people to cycle not less. We need to persuade motorists that cyclists aren't the enemy rather than telling them that cyclists are interlopers and should get out of their way. Attitudes towards cyclists are at the heart of why its so dangerous for cyclists on our roads and making drivers even more entitled is not the way to make it better.

Cycling on country roads feels 100x safer to me than cycling anywhere built up even though the speeds involved are massively different. I have been on a number of rides where 95% of the distance is on country roads and i've been overtaken a few hundred times safely. I then get back into civilisation and have 2-3 issues within a few miles.
 
bigmike20vt said:
They do need to be better maintained. but so do our roads. if a cyclist hits a pothole on a dedicated cycle lane they face an injury, but if they hit a pothole on the A1301, a 50mph road with a lot of cars and lorries on, they face far worse.
As a car driver I DO try to be very aware of my surroundings, and i know if i hit a bike or motorbike they will come of worse, but equally if you are going to take a slow / vehicle without much protection on to a fast road with cars and lorries then the burden of care DOES kind of fall on you imo.... (unless the car driver is breaking the law, then they should be done... but it is still moot if they hit the cyclist/motorcyclist.)
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I can't speak for all cyclists but personally i'm rarely worried about anything on the roads except for people behind the wheel of cars and other motorised vehicles. Potholes are usually easy enough to dodge or hop. I can control my speed around a corner to avoid slipping out and if I do something stupid and crash then I take full blame.

What scares me is when people overtake within 30cm of my bars. When drivers overtake and then cut across me forcing me to slam on the brakes. When people turn across me when I am going at 30mph etc. Cars scare us because we will always come out 2nd best and there are so many bad/unobservant drivers on the roads. You hit another car and you say "sorry mate" most of the time. You hit a cyclist and you will probably seriously injure or kill them. The stakes are just so much higher.
 
Tefal said:
So the only way to fix it is to discriminate against the disabled?


That will be an interesting law suit :p
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Removing cars but enabling public transport, pedestrians and bicycles would be an advantage to disabled people. They could navigate the streets more safely as there will be fewer cars and better pedestrian infrastructure; and public transport would still allow a disabled person to reach central zones.

Regardless, this sort of shift will take years, even with proper motivation. So much supporting infrastructure would be needed.
 
fez said:
I don't think that getting off my bike that many times on a ride will make me any safer and there shouldn't be any danger being a cyclist on our roads outside of stupid things a cyclists may do or things that are unavoidable. We need more people to cycle not less. We need to persuade motorists that cyclists aren't the enemy rather than telling them that cyclists are interlopers and should get out of their way. Attitudes towards cyclists are at the heart of why its so dangerous for cyclists on our roads and making drivers even more entitled is not the way to make it better.

Cycling on country roads feels 100x safer to me than cycling anywhere built up even though the speeds involved are massively different. I have been on a number of rides where 95% of the distance is on country roads and i've been overtaken a few hundred times safely. I then get back into civilisation and have 2-3 issues within a few miles.
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Contrary to how I'm coming across, I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, neither you nor I can control idiots in other vehicles, hence the 'you are responsible for your own safety' argument. Personally, I'm happy enough to sit back for the 30s or so to wait to overtake, but I've seen on so many occasions where this is not the case. On the flip side, there are many cyclists, especially in groups, that just take the **** for miles on end. Around here there are tonnes of roads that are single-lane with no opportunity to overtake, and I actively avoid them in the car so that I don't come across cyclists.
 
Cycle lanes are and always have been a joke.

I've been commuting in Bristol and cycling elsewhere for 15 years and it hasn't got any better, in many cases it's worse. At one roundabout alone there is a mix of all four; on-road cycling, cycle lane in road, separated cycle lane, and shared use path. It's just a mess and there isn't even a way of getting from one to another.

I've always felt that segregated cycle lanes just reinforces driver's views that cyclists shouldn't be on the roads. But as has been said there simply isn't the space or infrastructure flexibility to do that anyway.
 
bloodiedathame said:
Contrary to how I'm coming across, I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, neither you nor I can control idiots in other vehicles, hence the 'you are responsible for your own safety' argument. Personally, I'm happy enough to sit back for the 30s or so to wait to overtake, but I've seen on so many occasions where this is not the case. On the flip side, there are many cyclists, especially in groups, that just take the **** for miles on end. Around here there are tonnes of roads that are single-lane with no opportunity to overtake, and I actively avoid them in the car so that I don't come across cyclists.
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They really do, I see cyclists on the road reading their phones, and some have gone into back of cars and blaming the driver.
 
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