Are you British or English, Scotish, Welsh or Nothern Irish

Efour said:
Why do people get so flustered If someone describes themselves as English.

Do you just jump to nationalistic cliché in your head automatically?
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It's because it's currently fashionable to be irrationally prejudiced against English people.

I find this a very British attitude, Brits are so quick to self deprivation. Is that the right word. My English is actually getting worse. I can feel it. :p
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I think the word you're looking for is 'deprecation' rather than 'deprivation'.

It's not British. If someone describes themself as Scottish or Welsh the reaction is different. It's specifically targetting English people only.
 
I'm an Englishman and, where required, happy to be counted as a Briton.


Personally, I feel that the English need more representation politically (via an English Parliament) and across the board culturally (rather than having our nation conveniently segmented by region). I am sick to the back teeth of the pathetic trend for Blatantly English people (born, raised and educated in England) refusing to call themselves anything other than British due to the idiotic idea that the English Flag is some kind of racist emblem (which it never has been any more than any other nation) or the convenient logo of a few hooligans decades ago.


If we identified as a nation more we would control that narrative and get rid of these ridiculous, outdated stereotypes that exist only because decent English people lacked the coordination and collective gusto to distance themselves from ****wit hooligans in the 80's, early 90s, a few morons in the EDL etc. We passed over our identity to Westminster politicians who assumed that the English were happy to have their national identity watered down into a few regions melded into the UK and were happy to keep England and the English watered down too as it meant Westminster would always be the premier parliament rather than the side-show it would be if the English organised themselves.


Quite separately, I believe that flags in this nation and others should NEVER be allowed to be used for any political or cultural purpose other than to represent the Nation as a whole under strict conditions. The adoption of this ideal would have stopped the BNP or EDL, hooligans (and the media) from polluting what the flags represent.


Anyway, that's my view - take it or leave it.
 
For me this is easy.

I count myself as British because that it what my passport says. I cannot call myself English despite living here for almost 17 years because I was awarded British citizenship.

My children were all born in England and are both ultimately British first and English second.

I am also proudly British of South African (and Zimbabwean) extraction. I support Britain over everyone at sports, then England then South Africa.

When the children were younger (and more compliant) after we were all awarded British citizenship, we would sing G-d Save the Queen (all three verses and not the Sex Pistols version!)

I really enjoy the fact that there are four distinct Nations that make up the United Kingdom (five if you count the people from G-d's Own County).

If I had to expand on this, I am probably culturally South African but certainly enjoy certain English idiosyncrasies and we have appropriated them.

I do enjoy making fun of the Northern Irish and the Scottish (but heaven forbid never the Welsh as they really deserve our pity for that dialect) but it is all in good nature as ultimately we are all British.

I get upset hearing about the potential Scottish independence as I firmly believe we are stronger as a Union than completely separate Nations.

Ultimately, NI, Scottish, Welsh or English is all the same to me (same same but different). I would defend my fellow Brits and encourage my children to as well.

The United Kingdom may not be Utopia, but I am often having to explain to born and bred locals that it is still an amazing place and to stop slagging it off.

I am not saying it is perfect but name one place that is.
 
As an English person living in Scotland, I am British.

During the Six Nations I tell people I didn't choose where I was born but did choose where I live.
 
Noughtboy said:
The United Kingdom may not be Utopia, but I am often having to explain to born and bred locals that it is still an amazing place and to stop slagging it off.
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Amongst others I've some American acquaintances who have spent time living here and I used to live in flats in London with a fair few people living there who'd moved over from South Africa - it was interesting seeing through the lens of their experiences just how small minded and unappreciative all too many people native to these isles are when it comes to the positive sides of Britain and the UK - few places have as open, free and fair society with the relative peace and safety nets. Granted some might have never had the experiences to have the perspective which would allow them to appreciate it more.

The erosion of Great Britain is also small minded, even if a little arrogant to say so as we aren't the only country or entity with these values, but the weaker Britain and the UK is on the world stage that only opens the door more to those countries and entities who have lesser care for human rights and open society and so on.

I'm not nationalistic but I'm proud in a way of the positive sides of the British Empire and what Britain ostensibly aspires to be even if that is built in some cases on some very dark deeds.
 
Basher said:
On a related topic, if we were to identify as British, what would people from Northern Ireland identify as? Irish? Something else?
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British or Irish or Both. I mean, there's literally an international treaty about this.

Although "Great Britain" has been increasingly lost its traditional use where it was understood as a shortening of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland" to the narrower use, "Britain" is still understood as a shortening of the same.
 
With respect to Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England and Western islands ethnically we're all people of the British Isles and most of our DNA has been here for 10,000-14,000 years. Lots of cultural changes like Celts, Romans, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Normans have come in at the top of the hierarchies.
 
Mr Jack said:
British or Irish or Both. I mean, there's literally an international treaty about this.

Although "Great Britain" has been increasingly lost its traditional use where it was understood as a shortening of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland" to the narrower use, "Britain" is still understood as a shortening of the same.
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Yeah my point was that Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland - but to be fair (like you say), most assume it does.
 
Mr Jack said:
"Britain" does: it refers to the UK. "Great Britain" often doesn't.
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Britain in the proper definition doesn't. It refers to the British Isles, of which NI is not part.

It's not that Great Britain 'often' doesn't. It's that NI just isn't part of Great Britain.

The UK is GB+NI.
 
Basher said:
Britain in the proper definition doesn't. It refers to the British Isles, of which NI is not part.
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Well, firstly, no: Britain refers to the nation. Hence why it says "British" on our passports instead "United Kingdom". Although to be fair I can find some people using it to refer to the island of Great Britain, that's not the usual usage. Secondly, the "British Isles" refers to the collective of the island of Great Britain and the island of Ireland, as well as various smaller islands, and NI is very much part of that.

It's not that Great Britain 'often' doesn't. It's that NI just isn't part of Great Britain.
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These days, yes, the narrow meaning is more common. Traditionally, the broader meaning as a shortening of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland" was more common.
 
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