Are you proud to be British?

Avenged7Fold said:
Funnily enough when it comes down to research and education, Britain stands above many only because the combination of prestigious image and acceptance of foreign students/researchers that fight tooth and nail to get here as well, as our own researchers, allow us to stay ahead of the fields. The government has neglected research funding for years and many fields are seeing far less local applicants. I would most certainly say British science owes as much to external contributions as it does internal, if not more when talking about recent times. It could be argued that much of the science community has been relatively border-less in terms of country and affiliation, with projects taking place in many lands by people of many backgrounds, paid for with contributions from countries.
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Britain stands above now as it ALWAYS has sorry my point stands and always has. This is no some new thing and for that reason your point is rubbish.

There is always someone that wishes to say "sorry it's only because of others that you're good" but that baseless summary spends no time acknowledging that same truth for any other nation does it? Please do tell me which comparable nation does not chase the best talent?

Perhaps we should acknowledge the real and most important truth that it is the ENVIRONMENT and Institutions that are the real achievement.
 
nkata said:
Since my mothers knee!

They were both widely travelled, working in countries around the world, in Africa mainly. I have taken their views probably in that I still consider the UK to be the best place to be from and to live in. This cannot be too wrong with so many other nationalities wanting the same ideals. Whatever is said, we are a most progressive and fair country. Many countries could look to our legal and political systems and wish for them as their own. Our taxation, health and welfare arrangements are amongst the best in the world.
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Hmmm....

I always found it an odd concept of being proud of something you haven't really influenced at all (ie be born in the UK, USA, etc)
I can be proud of my daughter and her achievements after finishing Uni and getting a smashing job if I helped her with maths a lot. Or proud of myself of learning something new each year and actually manage to work towards that objective that I set for myself years back but cannot understand being proud of the queen, our welfare system et, things I had zero to do with. I might have voted for someone that set them up but I haven't done them myself.

I will take your 3 examples:
1/ taxation - one of the most complicated systems in the world actually, I say so, my accountant (and the fact I need one!) says so and many others. Germany has a much fairer and easier system to navigate and we are roughly at the same taxation levels
2/ health - one of highest death rates in children in the western world, amongst the highest waiting times in europe when it comes to non life threatening conditions
3/ welfare - it costs us 30k to keep 1 person in jail for 1 year yet we have people eating at foodbanks and millions of people earning sub 30k

So, yes - I can continue but this is not the point. Like others said, it is about self-achievement.

To close, US is even worse than us so I am not worried ...yet :) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHSXUS0_1c
 
Superficial said:
Britain stands above now as it ALWAYS has sorry my point stands and always has. This is no some new thing and for that reason your point is rubbish.
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My point is that the accomplishment of researchers are of the individuals and teams are made up of many individuals from all over the place, being funded from all over the place and based on knowledge discovered by someone elses, somewhere else at some other time.

Why in your eyes does Britain stand at the top?

My point is not rubbish and my own experience in research, as well as my viewpoints back it up. Britain claiming credit for science is like Germany taking credit for music. It is a claim of false pride

British research is British because of what? It's location?
The groups certainly are not made up completely of British people or even led by British people most of the time. Fund? Nope funding has been neglected, a lot of the funding comes from elsewhere. The base material behind that research? Well, even Newton said he was a dwarf standing on shoulders of giants. I think you will be hard pressed to find many researchers that agree with your statement.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Britain stands above many only because the combination of prestigious image and acceptance of foreign students/researchers that fight tooth and nail to get here as well
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This, a thousand times this. Working in the industry I've seen it first hand. Really hope this doesn't change soon, as it will choke the industry badly.

As others have said, happy to be British, but can't feel especially proud at the moment.

I would be more so if the govt. would put more investment into STEM industries however.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
My point is that the accomplishment of researchers are of the individuals and teams are made up of many individuals from all over the place, being funded from all over the place and based on knowledge discovered by someone elses, somewhere else at some other time.

Why in your eyes does Britain stand at the top?

My point is not rubbish and my own experience in research, as well as my viewpoints back it up. Britain claiming credit for science is like Germany taking credit for music. It is a claim of false pride
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I have already answered your question in the last line of my previous reply - your nonsensical comment previously that it is our perceived "prestige" that is the draw was foolish - that prestige comes from hundreds of years of Attainment that exists today as it always has.

yes yes yes you are going to repeatedly claim that Britain's scientific researchers come from many foreign climates but refuse to also acknowledge that that is true of EVERY COUNTRY (as I have already said)but that it is constantly Britain and a small clique of other nations that are the draw. THAT is the achievement.

Oh and by the way British citizens are overwhelmingly responsible for the our scientific reputation.
 
Having worked around the world I have to say that despite all it's faults, this is still a pretty great place to be.

I also don't think politicians define who we are so yeah, still very happy to be a tea-drinking, weather-bemoaning, stiff-upper-lip keep calm and carry on Brit. :)
 
"Superficial"
Oh and by the way British citizens are overwhelmingly responsible for the our scientific reputation.
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Anything to support this claim? Not saying is not true, just would not really believe that just because you said so. I have 2 friends in research in the UK, 2 in Switzerland and another 3 who worked in France and UK and then moved to Canada and the US. In all their teams they worked in there was a huge mix of nationalities and most of them came for the respective project only to leave when done - none of them cared to acquire British citizenship.
 
TacticalFish said:
This, a thousand times this. Working in the industry I've seen it first hand. Really hope this doesn't change soon, as it will choke the industry badly.

As others have said, happy to be British, but can't feel especially proud at the moment.

I would be more so if the govt. would put more investment into STEM industries however.
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Exactly. The scientific community has been borderless for hundreds of years. We owe advancements to collaborations of great minds from all over the place. I cannot name one scientist that owes his career to himself and his country alone.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Exactly. The scientific community has been borderless for hundreds of years. We owe advancements to collaborations of great minds from all over the place. I cannot name one scientist that owes his career to himself and his country alone.
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+1 !
Highly recommend a simple book like A brief history of time by Stephen H just to show you in one tiny space how scientists (greatest in the world btw) worked one of each others discoveries to get us where we are on the knowledge about the universe (to keep it british! ;) )
 
billysielu said:
+1 I'm not "proud" of being British, I didn't create Britain (It'd be much better if I did obvs).
But I like Britain and many British things and don't like the general trend of eroding national identity.
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Absolutely with you, however eroding is part of transforming it.
The stone age did not end because we ran out of stone!
Change is good and nobody can force us to lose our identity
 
klaxhu said:
Anything to support this claim? Not saying is not true, just would not really believe that just because you said so. I have 2 friends in research in the UK, 2 in Switzerland and another 3 who worked in France and UK and then moved to Canada and the US. In all their teams they worked in there was a huge mix of nationalities and most of them came for the respective project only to leave when done - none of them cared to acquire British citizenship.
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In fact my comment outright acknowledges the contributions of foreign researchers - the "reputation" certainly comes of the back of British citizens overwhelmingly and you don't need to take my word for it - a simple check of the list of Nobel prize winners will confirm it. Many people of foreign origins there too but not most.

Once and again the ENVIRONMENT we create is top tier and THAT is the most important factor and I am very proud of it. This has been the way for HUNDREDS of years.

I think it's sad that we live in a world where people are more impressed by the badge on their cars or washing machines than the fact that their country accounts for a predominant amount of leading scientific researchers and institutions.
 
Living abroad in Sweden it amazes me the instant, I'll say respect, for use of a better word, I get from total strangers when they find out my random place of birth and upbringing.

I'm personally not really proud to be British, I'm pretty saddened the way it's going in the next year.

It's freaking disturbing to see random people and random objects printed with union flags plastered all over them as a selling point. It is amazing the cultural influences Britain has, I honestly can't see it lasting in the next 50 years.

Speaking British English is amazing. Truly advantageous.
 
Not really, I just happen to be born here.

I don't feel any pride or shame for my Counties actions as they're nothing to do with me, very fortunate to be born here and I'm grateful for that.

Nationalism seems a bit archaic to me.
 
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