arrested

[Pants]

The only other think is, when he is cleared, who pays for the loss in business? Just curious as they have taken the van and kit. Some clients are going to be very brassed off this week.

 

[stoofa]

For the love of god - why is there this general dislike of the police on these forums?
I cannot believe some of the posts.
All I do know is that you'd be the first to sing their praises if they were saving your life, recovering your stolen belongings, etc.

You make it sound like the police ahve got nothing better to do all day then take the time to make things up just so they can go out and arrest innocent people, hassle them and then hopefully convict them of crimes they did not comit because that really would be a day well spent wouldn't it?

The police haven't fabricated their story, they are obviously working on what evidence they have.
They have attempted to pull a pick-up which when stopped reversed into and rammed a police vehicle.
There has been a pursuit, the pick-up trucks registration plate has been recorded.
Now how is it the polices fault that it now sounds like the pick-up truck may have had false plates on?
They are acting on the evidence they have - the plate.
The police are going to look really stupid if they spend time and effort looking really deep into something and then find it was just a simple matter of looking up who is the registered keeper of a vehicle and then going around and arresting them.

If you've done nothing wrong then you've got nothing at all to worry about.
They will find nothing on the van to link it with the crime and the owner will be released without charge.

The police are just doing their job as everyone else out there is.
"We don't trust the police now" - so you won't be calling them if ever your the victim of crime then because they will just come around and set you up for the crime instead of bothering to try and find out who really did it.

 

[drew]

My friends dad had to go to court for driving in the third lane with a trailer. At the time he was towing a bright yellow racing car. He went to court as he denied the charge. His solicitor asked the police what colour was the car he was towing, they said black.

Case dismissed.

Whose to say that they didn't prang the car themselves and are finding a scapegoat.

 

[D4VE]

sounds like the plates have been copied yeah, nightmare

 

[Von Smallhausen]

My friends dad had to go to court for driving in the third lane with a trailer. At the time he was towing a bright yellow racing car. He went to court as he denied the charge. His solicitor asked the police what colour was the car he was towing, they said black.

Case dismissed.

Whose to say that they didn't prang the car themselves and are finding a scapegoat.

While not impossible, it seems very thin to suggest that the cops would prang the vehicle and then decide to fabricate a story and fit up an innocent driver.

So in the name of covering themselves for a minor shunt, they will .....

. Lie about an accident.
. Lie in their statements. [ Pervert the course of justice ]
. Lie in court if it goes that far. [ Perjury ]

All to cover said minor shunt ? Is it just me who finds that an utter load of crap ?

The facts seem to be that the reg plate has been cloned and the lad had been an unfortunate victim of that. As for the grounds for arrest the OP mentions, how about ....

Dangerous driving, fail to stop after an accident, fail to report an accident, possible theft of motor vehicle ( false plates ), using a false instrument ( false plates ) ..... the list is quite full of grounds.

I can't help but agree with stoofa. The police can't really act as judge and jury on the street in that situation. They have been shunted and the driver has done one and the cops have lost him. If plates have been cloned and the lad is not responsible and is an innocent victim, then that will all come out in the wash. That is why he has been bailed, so that further enquiries can be carried out.

While I sympathise with what has happened, I just can't help get get annoyed when the police are trying to do what they are paid for and make a perfectly justifiable arrest but then unlearned people start shrieking police corruption as a result.

It ****** me off massively. Let them do what they need to do and if the lad is innocent then so be it.

Of course, if he is, the cops could always slip half a kilo of heroin and a MAC 10 in his car when he answers bail ..... ? Although I avoid them, I find this quite appropriate.

 

[bam0]

While it seems apparent that this is an issue of mistaken identity the police now have another persons fingerprints and DNA sample on their database. And good luck getting it removed.

 

[Raymond Lin]

While it seems apparent that this is an issue of mistaken identity the police now have another persons fingerprints and DNA sample on their database. And good luck getting it removed.

The obvious question is, so what if they now have more finger prints and DNA on the database? If the accused is innocent and not plan to commit any crime in the future then what difference does it make? If on the contrary the accused somehow does commit crimes in the future then the database will help to solve the case.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

While it seems apparent that this is an issue of mistaken identity the police now have another persons fingerprints and DNA sample on their database. And good luck getting it removed.

So ?

An elimination tool and nothing else. What harm will come from that ?

 

[weeble]

I find it odd that a pick-up can out-run a focus, with or without blues and twos.

Does sound as though the plates have been copied...good luck.

 

[lordrobs]

I expect a clone, once forensics have had a look and police have checked his alibi I expect he'll be freed.

I think this will be the case.

Remember Pants, its guilty until proven innocent

 

[bam0]

The obvious question is, so what if they now have more finger prints and DNA on the database? If the accused is innocent and not plan to commit any crime in the future then what difference does it make? If on the contrary the accused somehow does commit crimes in the future then the database will help to solve the case.

So ?

An elimination tool and nothing else. What harm will come from that ?

Not having intimate personal details held on a police computer system is a freedom most people enjoy, I know I do.
The loss of freedom is usually only associated with being in contravention of the law, and as such I feel it is wrong to lose these freedoms merely on the accusation of wrongdoing.
If in the course of an investigation the police have a need for someones DNA or fingerprints they should petition a judge for them. If at the end of the case the person is guilty then that data can go on file, otherwise it should be destroyed.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Not having intimate personal details held on a police computer system is a freedom most people enjoy, I know I do.
The loss of freedom is usually only associated with being in contravention of the law, and as such I feel it is wrong to lose these freedoms merely on the accusation of wrongdoing.
If in the course of an investigation the police have a need for someones DNA or fingerprints they should petition a judge for them. If at the end of the case the person is guilty then that data can go on file, otherwise it should be destroyed.

Where is the line? And how is they having your details be a freedom? Would you consider your passport a violation to your freedom? Or your national Insurance number? Or the fact that you have to give out your email to register here? Where is the line?

The information they hold is to solve crime, sorry to burst your bubble but the police don't have the time to violate your human rights on a daily bases.

As for petition in court for DNA sample when they have a suspect? Who do you think will end up paying for that? We do, tax payers.

 

[bam0]

Where is the line? And how is they having your details be a freedom? Would you consider your passport a violation to your freedom? Or your national Insurance number? Or the fact that you have to give out your email to register here? Where is the line?

The information they hold is to solve crime, sorry to burst your bubble but the police don't have the time to violate your human rights on a daily bases.

As for petition in court for DNA sample when they have a suspect? Who do you think will end up paying for that? We do, tax payers.

What line? In terms of them storing your details, I thought I was clear the line was when convicted of a crime.
A passport is a choice, many people don't have them, the principle being you can decide if the value you receive is worth the exchange for your details. There is no such choice when you are arrested, unless I am mistaken (and I would be happy to be wrong), you are compelled to provide fingerprints and DNA?
As for giving an email address to register here, again see my above comment regarding choice and perceived value.

The main premise for holding the information they do is to solve crime, that is not it's only value though. I'm not saying the police are using it to violate my rights, only that the information has that potential and so you should manage the access to it (see the security principal of least privilege).

As for the last part of your comment, yes we will pay for that, so will the police and I imagine it would only be done when actually required rather than being a default action.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Not having intimate personal details held on a police computer system is a freedom most people enjoy, I know I do.
The loss of freedom is usually only associated with being in contravention of the law, and as such I feel it is wrong to lose these freedoms merely on the accusation of wrongdoing.
If in the course of an investigation the police have a need for someones DNA or fingerprints they should petition a judge for them. If at the end of the case the person is guilty then that data can go on file, otherwise it should be destroyed.

Can I give an example ......

I know of an incident where a female was brutally raped about 8 or so years ago and no suspect was known. CCTV was checked, semen found and the relevant samples taken. the DNA sample was checked against the national database with no hit.

Jump forward 7 years and a male who was urinating against a wall was found by police and when told to move on, he gave them a bit jip and was arrested for a minor public order offence that he would have been kicked out the next morning probably no further action. His DNA is taken and that DNA placed on the national database matched the semen recovered from the female and he is now serving 7 years.

A bad thing ? A loss of freedom indeed, but one few will argue with and certainly justice for the woman who was brutalised.

There are no loss of freedoms whatsoever.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

DNA sampling isn't as accurate as many people beleive.

I can see the advantages, such as in the case that you mention, but it does concern me that a DNA match is seen as absolute in the eyes of most.

 

["andy"]

everyone should have to give there dna and fingerprints IMO

either when young eg,at school or as soon as you enter the country.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

everyone should have to give there dna and fingerprints IMO.

Why?

 

[bam0]

Can I give an example ......

I know of an incident where a female was brutally raped about 8 or so years ago and no suspect was known. CCTV was checked, semen found and the relevant samples taken. the DNA sample was checked against the national database with no hit.

Jump forward 7 years and a male who was urinating against a wall was found by police and when told to move on, he gave them a bit jip and was arrested for a minor public order offence that he would have been kicked out the next morning probably no further action. His DNA is taken and that DNA placed on the national database matched the semen recovered from the female and he is now serving 7 years.

A bad thing ? A loss of freedom indeed, but one few will argue with and certainly justice for the woman who was brutalised.

There are no loss of freedoms whatsoever.

It wouldn't be a principle of mine if I thought there were exceptions, I stated above where the line should be in my opinion. The fact that this case was solved, or that other cases may be solved in a similar way is not justification enough for the freedoms I perceive we lose by allowing it.
An an allegory people often say "X measure, if it saves just one life, would be worth it", well actually sometimes it isn't worth it. I believe these situations are best considered from a distance, trying to tie it to a particular situation is tantamount to emotional blackmail.

It's not that I don't see your point, I honestly do. I just don't agree with it.

 

[Moley]

sorry to burst your bubble but the police don't have the time to violate your human rights on a daily bases.

My god, you really are sold on the Plod being the heroes of the world, here to protect us all aren't you?

I sincerely hope you never fall foul of the authorities - either on purpose, or more likely by accident - because then your rose-tinted bubble will be burst for you.

The police are NOT your friend, they are NOT here to protect you, they DON'T give a monkeys about you.

All you are is a potential criminal or a potential victim.

Get nicked (even for something minor) and they will treat you like **** on the bottom of their shoe and rack you up as another number contributing to their targets.

Become a victim, and they will use you to get to the person they can nick to make up their numbers. Then drop you and you'll never hear from them again.

It's all a political numbers game now, not your friendly bobby in the beat.



*Fully star out swearies! -J*

 

[Raymond Lin]

It wouldn't be a principle of mine if I thought there were exceptions, I stated above where the line should be in my opinion. The fact that this case was solved, or that other cases may be solved in a similar way is not justification enough for the freedoms I perceive we lose by allowing it.
An an allegory people often say "X measure, if it saves just one life, would be worth it", well actually sometimes it isn't worth it. I believe these situations are best considered from a distance, trying to tie it to a particular situation is tantamount to emotional blackmail.

It's not that I don't see your point, I honestly do. I just don't agree with it.

I don't see how you would lose "freedom", no one is stopping you leaving the country or date you girlfriend. They simply hold information, no different than they have your name and address or even a picture of you. How would having your DNA and finger print on file affect your "freedom"?