arrested

[Raymond Lin]

My god, you really are sold on the Plod being the heroes of the world, here to protect us all aren't you?

I sincerely hope you never fall foul of the authorities - either on purpose, or more likely by accident - because then your rose-tinted bubble will be burst for you.

The police are NOT your friend, they are NOT here to protect you, they DON'T give a monkeys about you.

All you are is a potential criminal or a potential victim.

Get nicked (even for something minor) and they will treat you like **** on the bottom of their shoe and rack you up as another number contributing to their targets.

Become a victim, and they will use you to get to the person they can nick to make up their numbers. Then drop you and you'll never hear from them again.

It's all a political numbers game now, not your friendly bobby in the beat.

I never said they are my friends, they have a job to do and I know the procedure they have to go through when they make an arrest, if they step out of line thou i'll have their ass on a plate.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

I don't see how you would lose "freedom", no one is stopping you leaving the country or date you girlfriend. They simply hold information, no different than they have your name and address or even a picture of you. How would having your DNA and finger print on file affect your "freedom"?

It's mainly a question of 'creep' and where do you draw the line when it comes to information gathering and intrusion into private lives. It's a worry of mine that the government are increasingly asking for information backed by relatively sound arguments there is no defined line and we could end up with intrusion into our private lives.

As was mentioned earlier, where do your draw the line? If the 'creep' of information gathering is slow then the line moves with it.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

My god, you really are sold on the Plod being the heroes of the world, here to protect us all aren't you?

They are here for what then ?

I sincerely hope you never fall foul of the authorities - either on purpose, or more likely by accident - because then your rose-tinted bubble will be burst for you.

Speaking from experience ?

The police are NOT your friend

Maybe not.

they are NOT here to protect you

Primary resposibilities are: Protect life. Protect property.

they DON'T give a monkeys about you.

From a personal level, maybe not, but from a duty of care point of view they have to.

Get nicked (even for something minor) and they will treat you like **** on the bottom of their shoe and rack you up as another number contributing to their targets.

Crap. Utter crap. No offence.

Become a victim, and they will use you to get to the person they can nick to make up their numbers. Then drop you and you'll never hear from them again.

You've never heard of the Victims Charter then ? As for becoming a victim and them using you, if a female has the living **** kicked out of her by a violent husband then of course the police will use her as a source of information to get him. What the hell else do you expect ? As for dropping them .... you've never heard of victim support, which is invariably offered by cops.

It's all a political numbers game now, not your friendly bobby in the beat.

The first bit has merit, the second bit does not.


At Bamo .... fair enough.

 

[Minto]

Can I give an example ......

I know of an incident where a female was brutally raped about 8 or so years ago and no suspect was known. CCTV was checked, semen found and the relevant samples taken. the DNA sample was checked against the national database with no hit.

Jump forward 7 years and a male who was urinating against a wall was found by police and when told to move on, he gave them a bit jip and was arrested for a minor public order offence that he would have been kicked out the next morning probably no further action. His DNA is taken and that DNA placed on the national database matched the semen recovered from the female and he is now serving 7 years.

A bad thing ? A loss of freedom indeed, but one few will argue with and certainly justice for the woman who was brutalised.

There are no loss of freedoms whatsoever.

The way they analyse the dna give them a 'dna fingerprint' NOT a full sequence.
This method is fundamentally flawed in that for any given dna fingerprint there are, on average, 55 people in the UK that share it (or one indistinguishably similar).

 

[Von Smallhausen]

The way they analyse the dna give them a 'dna fingerprint' NOT a full sequence.
This method is fundamentally flawed in that for any given dna fingerprint there are, on average, 55 people in the UK that share it (or one indistinguishably similar).

I know that.

Then, when the person is arrested, they take another sample called a DNA 2, which is again sent to the lab for verification so the conviction, if it happens, is not based on the initial DNA hit. It is verified by the FSS.

A photographic ID is far better, but it isn't always available. As a crime fighting tool, DNA cannot be discounted although it isn't then be all and end all.

 

["andy"]

Why?

surely people thinking of commiting a serious crime would think twice knowing theyre dna/fingerprint details are stored away.....

i know i would

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

As a crime fighting tool, DNA cannot be discounted although it isn't then be all and end all.

Unfortunately that's not the public perception of it, and so it's usage as major evidence in trial cases worries me.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

surely people thinking of commiting a serious crime would think twice knowing theyre dna/fingerprint details are stored away.

It's far from foolproof though and open to miscarraiges of justice, especially when you consider that it would be the likes of Capita who would win the contract to manage it.

I'd prefer to keep my dna to myself (and people who ask nicely) and give it on an as required basis either by volunteering or by court order, but only then if the records were destroyed afterwards.

 

[Glaucus]

I thought if you where not convicted of any crime, dna/fingerprints had to be removed?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

I thought if you where not convicted of any crime, dna/fingerprints had to be removed?

I'm not sure of the current situation, but andy8271 is advocating compulsory permenant registration.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

I thought if you where not convicted of any crime, dna/fingerprints had to be removed?

It was like that but the Police And Criminal Evidence Act of 1984 was amended by the Anti-Terror, Crime And Security Act of 2001 where Section 64 ( PACE ) was amended to Section 64a, allowing them to be taken and even if not charged, allowed to remain on record.

 

[The_Judge]

From my experience the police are a complete bunch of useless monkies as an organisation. Some individuals are nice people though.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

From my experience the police are a complete bunch of useless monkies as an organisation. Some individuals are nice people though.

That is an absolute affrontary to monkeys. They are very useful in that they can dress up in business suits and drink tea from a cup, not to mention trained to fetch beer.

 

[Glaucus]

It was like that but the Police And Criminal Evidence Act of 1984 was amended by the Anti-Terror, Crime And Security Act of 2001 where Section 64 ( PACE ) was amended to Section 64a, allowing them to be taken and even if not charged, allowed to remain on record.

Thats a ashame . But I can understand why they have changed it. I wouldn't like my details to be stored, too much can go wrong in the future. But they know who the majority of terrorists are, they just can't prove hence why I expect they changed that law.

I've had mixed feelings on the police, 2/3 times they have been excellent very very good. The third time they tried everything to make me slip up, they wanted to arrest me but couldn't (hadn't done anything wrong).

But I also now a few cops and they really are tied down by stupid paper work, arrest someone for a petty crime at the begging of the shift and thats it, paper work for the rest of the time. Thats why so many peti crimes aren't delt with.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Thats a ashame . But I can understand why they have changed it. I wouldn't like my details to be stored, too much can go wrong in the future. But they know who the majority of terrorists are, they just can't prove hence why I expect they changed that law.

Or the other way of looking at it is that the Anti-Terror, Crime and Security Act was just a back door to allow this kind of errosion of liberty whilst sufficient people were scared enough to accept or not question it.

 

[Moley]

Speaking from experience ?

Honestly? Yes.

Crap. Utter crap. No offence.

None taken, but not crap from my experience.

You've never heard of the Victims Charter then?

Yes actually, its a nice piece of Home Office paperwork. I've read it. Have you?

Glad for your input BTW - I'm always happy for open constructive conversation.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Or the other way of looking at it is that the Anti-Terror, Crime and Security Act was just a back door to allow this kind of errosion of liberty whilst sufficient people were scared enough to accept or not question it.

I am at a loss as to how anyones liberty is lost ?

Does this in any way affect or restrict your everyday life ? How does this restrict liberty ? You are free to live your life as you see fit, but if that life is one of crime or you commit a crime where DNA or fingerprints are a factor then fair game.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

None taken, but not crap from my experience.

Do share it.

Yes actually, its a nice piece of Home Office paperwork. I've read it. Have you?

Read it and adhered to it.

Glad for your input BTW - I'm always happy for open constructive conversation.

That is good to know, thank you.

 

[stoofa]

My god, you really are sold on the Plod being the heroes of the world, here to protect us all aren't you?

I sincerely hope you never fall foul of the authorities - either on purpose, or more likely by accident - because then your rose-tinted bubble will be burst for you.

The police are NOT your friend, they are NOT here to protect you, they DON'T give a monkeys about you.

All you are is a potential criminal or a potential victim.

Get nicked (even for something minor) and they will treat you like **** on the bottom of their shoe and rack you up as another number contributing to their targets.

Become a victim, and they will use you to get to the person they can nick to make up their numbers. Then drop you and you'll never hear from them again.

It's all a political numbers game now, not your friendly bobby in the beat.



*Fully star out swearies! -J*

Oh my word - I don't think I've read a post like this in my life.
Of course the police are there to protect you of course they give a "monkeys" about you - it is their job to do so.

I really don't know where to start on this post so I'm not going to, it would appear that somebody else has already taken it apart.
You really need to realise that the world isn't against you and that those people in authority are not all out to get you.

 

[Glaucus]

I am at a loss as to how anyones liberty is lost ?
.

At the moment there isn't, what happens when this information is given to insurance companies, so the government can charge money. Thats just one example. Once you start on a slippery slope (especially in politics) its almost impossible to stop.

You say it won happen, then no one thought you would be able to be arrested and kept with no charges in 2006. Oh look they can do that.