Ashley, Pardew or both ?

Von Smallhausen

Von Smallhausen

Von Smallhausen

Man of Honour
Joined
1 Aug 2004
Posts
12,681
Location
Tyneside
I have supported The Toon since my dad took me to my first game in about 1984. It has always been a roller coaster ride since then with drama, entertainment and despair but I'm struggling to remember such a stagnation at the club and without a mis season purple patch, we would likely be playing championship football next season.

I have seen some awesome talent at St James' - Gazza, Waddle, Beardsley ( in my opinion the best pound for pound player ever to pull on a black and white shirt ), Ginola, Ferdinand, Shearer and others but there is no desire at the club now.

Is it Ashley ? Is it Pardew or is it both that need to go ? All things considered, I don't think Pardew has done too bad a job given his lack of funding by an owner worth in excess of £3.5 billion. Ashley clearly doesn't give a monkey's chuff other than the business side of things and I wouldn't be sorry to see him sell up.

Thoughts ?
 
I think it's just Ashley, Pardew, not brilliant but not bad can't really see anyone else coming in and doing much better with the resources that Ashley gives him. Particularly selling off the better players and then not replacing them and Kinnear's appointment was laughable.
 
Pardew isn't that bad, he's clearly got something about him as a manager, despite being a massive idiot at times.

Ashley is happy for Newcastle to sit in mid-table and he'd have to raise the funding significantly for any sort of serious challenge for European places (be it in the Europa or Champions League).

With extremely shrewd buys you could end up in a better position (around 5th/6th), Moyes at Everton did a decent job with fairly limited funding. I think Ashley might try and get Moyes in to replace Pardew.
 
I'm not a Newcastle fan, but my uninformed armchair opinion is that Ashley is the root cause. Pardew is a bit of an idiot at times, but without financial support his options are limited.

It doesn't tell the whole story I know, but take a glance at the transfer spending for Premiership clubs over the past five years:

106hu87.jpg



Newcastle have sold £45m more than they have brought in.


Premiership clubs with a big base of support are in fairly high demand. If Mike Ashley isn't interested in building the global brand of the club then he should move over and sell to someone who is.
 
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Ashley has put money into the club and doesn't get the respect he deserves for that.

Pardew I have disliked for quite some time and should be replaced if they don't have to pay out the remaining 6(?) years of his contract, e.g. Moyes is available
 
grimm said:
Oh man... Villa have done terribly considering what they've spent haven't they?
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That table makes our position look embarrassing. When you factor in the sale of Young, Downing, Milner and Barry (all for at least double what we paid for them) and you're still 6th in the net spending chart and you finish 15th twice and 16th once in the last three seasons there's something very wrong.
 
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Why replace Pardew (who got us to 5th with limited spending) with Moyes who might get us to 5th/6th with limited spending?

I don't blame pardew for Newcastle and their search for mid table comfort, I blame higher up.

Sports Direct advertisement Utd.

I'd rather jump ship to Gateshead , even if it is glory supporting now.
 
If they wanted rid of Pardew surely they would have done it when he butted that player. They could have then got rid of him for next to nothing.
 
Moses said:
Newcastle fans need to accept their club will always be mediocre. You can't expect to break into the Champions League without irresponsibly ridiculous, unsustainable backing from the owner... which means you're just one of the many clubs whose aim is to avoid relegation.
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I wouldn't say that Newcastle is a mediocre club but then again I'm a tad biased but they should be doing better than they are and regularly get a top 8 finish. Champions league and Premiership titles aren't why I support them. It would he nice but Toon fans, in the main, are realists. They just want entertaining football and anything that goes after that is a bonus.

I don't believe a club with a huge fan base and 50,000+ gates falls into the mediocre class but as I say, I'm biased.
 
Robbo said:
Ashley is happy for Newcastle to sit in mid-table and he'd have to raise the funding significantly for any sort of serious challenge for European places (be it in the Europa or Champions League).
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Saw this the other day on the BBC website.

Top 25

Sri and Gopi Hinduja, £11.9bn, up £1.3bn
Alisher Usmanov, £10.65bn, down £2.65bn
Lakshmi Mittal and family, £10.25bn, up £250m
Len Blavatnik, £10bn, down £1bn
Ernesto and Kirsty Bertarelli, £9.75bn, up £2.35bn
John Fredriksen and family, £9.25bn, up £450m
David and Simon Reuben, £9bn, up £719m
Kirsten and Jorn Rausing, £8.8bn, up £3.69bn
Roman Abramovich, £8.52bn, down £780m
The Duke of Westminster, £8.5bn, up £700m
Galen, Hilary and George Weston and family, £7.3bn, up £650m
Charlene de Carvalho-Heineken and Michel de Carvalho, £6.36bn, down £635m
Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber and family, £6.16bn, up £1.65bn
Carrie and Francois Perrodo and family, £6.14bn, new
German Khan, £6.08bn, new
Sir David and Sir Frederick Barclay, £6bn, up £3.65bn
Hans Rausing and family £5.9bn, up £1.18bn
Nicky Oppenheimer and family, £4.57bn, up £785m
Earl Cadogan and family, £4.2bn, up £525m
Joseph Lau and family, £4.03bn, down £570m
Sir Philip and Lady Green £3.88bn, no change
Denis O'Brien, £3.85bn, up £486m
Mike Ashley, £3.75bn, up £1.45bn
Sir Richard Branson and family, £3.6bn, up £86m
Idan Ofer, £3.43bn, new
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27360032

So he could probably up the budget a wee bit for next season ;)
 
Newcastle fans certainly deserve better than they are getting. A few people I know seem to think that Moyes is a good fit for Newcastle, but I see him more as a perfect fit for Villa personally. Newcastle have always had a reputation of excitement and attacking football, so Moyes doesn't fit the bill imo. I'd consider Laudrupp.
 
Derek W said:
Saw this the other day on the BBC website.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27360032

So he could probably up the budget a wee bit for next season ;)
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How much someone is worth has nothing at all to do with how much they invest. The majority of rich people are rich because they don't pee away their money badly. Newcastle went from masses losses every year to just about breaking even. It's sensible to build from there. Most billionaires, like Arsenal's multiple owners, aren't interested in investing millions of their own money.

Also worth mentioning that most peoples wealth is calculated not as cash in hand but entire net worth. If Sports Direct was worth 3.3billlion he may only have 100million in a bank account.

If Chelsea/City owners decide to spend billions they've made elsewhere, fine, up to them. There are more rich owners who don't significantly subsidise their teams than rich owners who throw 100's of millions if not billions at their club.

Newcastle can't expect better(financially). Since they became effectively safe, hitting the 40ish point mark, their form has been ridiculously awful. Not helped by a late loss of Cabaye in the slightest. I expect them to reinvest that money, sometimes timing is an issue, that is life. Probably a Cabaye replacement in summer, and well they should get basically 3 new strikers, will they, won't they. Who knows.

If you sell an player for an absurd amount of money, say, Carroll, then bring in like 5 french players, even though they cost less than 35million, wage wise those 5 players would be in 3-4 times total what Carroll was on. Call it Carroll on 50k a week and 5 french players on 200k a week. I can't remember how much they cost, call it 15mil even, at 7.5mil extra wages every year after four years that means 45mil spending overall. So the club spends more but actual transfer spending was lower. That will effectively always happen when you get some absurd over valued transfer fee.

Teams make a profit one window, sell Carroll, break even another, and spend bigger in another transfer window. expecting to hit break even perfectly every single year is daft for any team.

The time you could complain that he isn't doing enough for the club is if he takes 30mil out a year and does that beyond where he's made his money back, he's far in the "invested more than taken money out" column so to complain about a bit of low value advertising when no one else would pay more is so ridiculously petty.

Completely forgotten the director guys name who left, Mr Swears a lot. He did incredibly badly, he's gone. Ashley isn't a life time owner, all clubs make mistakes. many clubs suffer from "post safety" lull, Swansea/West Brom were abysmal in the second half of last season. It happens, if Pardew doesn't learn from it, get rid of him, if he does learn from it, not a problem.
 
you do realise that was a semi flippant remark i made?

We've got two examples in Scotland (at opposite ends of the scale) of how owners of clubs invest in the team.

Rangers - throw money at everything till things go pear shaped (and they're still doing it! (67million to win the scottish league 1 & 2 :D:D:D))

Celtic - Dermot Desmond is a billionaire but between him and Fergus McCann they sorted out Celtics finances so they weren't making stupid losses year to year but are still attracting good players who they then sell on at a profit (Gary Hooper and Victor Wyama(sp) are two examples)

Just cos Dermot Desmond has the money doesn't mean he's going to throw money at the club and conversely with Rangers David Murray threw a fair whack at the club then sold it for a pound to Whyte / Green / A N Other who were / are looking to make a quick buck out of the club instead since its financially fragile.
 
With Newcastle it's probably a toxic mix of Pardew and Ashley. It's plain to see that Ashley sees Newcastle as a way to milk a couple of Million a season probably more. Sell the best players for a higher value than what they were bought.

Newcastle in some respects is a good example of football being over commercialised. When Von mentions some of the Newcastle greats, whats the conveyor belt like producing local talent. Their is an obvious connection with the club but the club do not seem to connect back with the local community or fan base.

When I see Chairmen with Scarves on and Club ties like Ashley, The Glazers, Sheik Mansour, Gillett and Hicks, Randy Learner, fans have to accept, guys like these see it as a business first and foremost. Their main aim is running a club like a business to get the best return.

The likes of a Peter Coates at Stoke who has a club running without debt, commercially sound and continuous albeit limited investment are few and far between. If I am not mistaken, Stoke are the only club in the Premier League who are debt free. You could argue City and Chelsea are

Unfortunately for Newcastle and it's fans that model is buying unknowns and selling them for a tidy profit ala Ba and Cabaye

The only saving Grace is that if Pardew does decide to sell up, then any potential suitors would be getting a club that in theory should be financially solvent.
 
Kind of a catch22 by the looks of it. Ashley doesn't want to throw money away, but Newcastle probably wont do much better without him spending more money, but to say he needs to go? My understanding was that he'd paid off a lot of the debt (^confirmed above), would a potential buyer do that? Or would they leverage more debt against the club in a doomed bid for glory?
 
Ashley does get a lot of bad press but I wasn't aware he'd cleared £75m worth of debt either. The best Newcastle can hope for is a good cup run for some silverware and such teams should prioritise accordingly in my opinion.

Too many fans want their team to spend stupid money on transfers and wages which just end up with situations like Portsmouth and Rangers.
 
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