Asked to resign

Xan_Molbjerg said:
Yeah, the above was kinda what I was thinking. I could tell someone I thought their friend was a complete ______ depending on how I said I didn't want to say....
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Conversely though... you are between a rock and a hard place.

Whilst they may feel obligated to give you a good reference... how that reference is delivered and phrased can say so much more than the content.

Very easy for them to do if they're not so keen on you I'm afraid.

Most employers get so many over their desk, you get to see a lot... you may happen to be discovered by one who's new/inexperienced or just generally bad at reading between the lines. It's a gamble.

If it was me,.. I would not base your actions on whether or not they say they will give you a good or bad reference. Assume the worst on that front. Focus on getting the best settlement for you at this current point in time.

That may seem short-sighted, but the option is so much of a gamble, it's not worth sacrificing your short-term liquidity.

However, this is only based on my own opinions and experiences. I am not an employment lawyer... that is who you really need to be speaking to.

I'd like to re-iterate... CALL ACAS!

It'll only cost you a phone call... and you'll get better advice there than you will here.

Please do keep us posted though :)
 
arknor said:
i thought companies arent alowed to give you a bad reference? only a good one or not at all
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Wrong.

Companies can give a bad reference, they just need to be able to justify it with evidence if needed.

A lot of companies have a policy of not giving bad references for fear of being sued.

If I gave you a reference and said your time keeping was poor I would need to be able to demonstrate that with evidence. If I said you were an argumentative individual who ****ed off the rest of your department that becomes harder to demonstrate.
 
spudbynight said:
Wrong.

Companies can give a bad reference, they just need to be able to justify it with evidence if needed.

A lot of companies have a policy of not giving bad references for fear of being sued.

If I gave you a reference and said your time keeping was poor I would need to be able to demonstrate that with evidence. If I said you were an argumentative individual who ****ed off the rest of your department that becomes harder to demonstrate.
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This. So much BS spouted here by people who just do not know!

OP, get yourself to a specialist solicitor quicksharp. Do not pass go, do not go to the CAB (amazed that gem hasn't cropped up here already) and hopefully you'll be collecting more than $200 soon...
 
I am not an employment lawyer at all but I have hired and fired many people in my previous line of work.

Getting someone to `resign`save a whole load of paper work becuase you dont have to justify any reasons for the sacking because said person left.

I know you said that you were talking down the pub but this isnt really grounds for any kind of disiplinary action becuase it was out of works time and typically is heresay. Did they pull you up on this and were you given any formal warnings or notices? Have they in the past given you warnings or formal notices of improper conduct about your attitude? If you can say no then you can simply defend yourself by saying you have never been made aware there was a problem until today and that you have not been given a chance to improve becuase you didnt know there was a problem. This all stems from them really not having enough evidence to sack you and hence asking you to `resign`.

I would say you might even have a case for constructive dismissal here but again I am no employment lawyer. At an ET they would need to prove that you were given opertunities to improve your attitude and you clearly failed in this and so you are being fired. I would wager they cannot prove this is the case.

In my previous job we had some guy who was late for every shift and I mean EVERY shift. All the other shift managers just used to let him get away with it but I built up the required paperwork and he was warned numerous times about his lateness and eventually was fired because of this. We gave him a chance to improve but it was clear he couldnt so we have the required evidence to then follow the formal procedures.

I would go back to them and basically tell them you are talking to an employment lawyer and will get back to them, in the mean time it would be silly of you to resign becuase that is clearly what they want.
 
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Thanks for the reply slade.

My problem here is that my difficulty to be worked with has been mentioned at my last annual review, but never as an actual warning so to speak, more like highlighting a flaw. During this process it has been mentioned several times that I've it'd come up in the last review and hasn't changed by now. There's never been any warnings about pub conversations... But basically, I can see where they're coming from, I'm not sure I wouldn't be doing the same thing in their position - just that it doesn't seem like something to get fired over, or maybe I'm being naive...

I shall call ACAS, I've tried calling the local CAB, not got through.

I phoned housing benefit and they said that resigning wouldn't affect that, but could there be anything else that would hinder that? Some clause or another?

Thanks a lot for the support guys.
 
I believe housing benifit is only paid if you are in reciept of another benifit since you will have resigned I doubt you will qualify for JSA and hence cant apply for housing benifit?.
 
Xan_Molbjerg said:
My problem here is that my difficulty to be worked with has been mentioned at my last annual review, but never as an actual warning so to speak, more like highlighting a flaw. During this process it has been mentioned several times that I've it'd come up in the last review and hasn't changed by now. There's never been any warnings about pub conversations... But basically, I can see where they're coming from, I'm not sure I wouldn't be doing the same thing in their position - just that it doesn't seem like something to get fired over, or maybe I'm being naive...
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Doesn't matter what they said at your annual review, there's a set process to go through to sack an employee and it's a massive pain in the arse (for them). They haven't done this, they can't sack you. As has been said over and over and over again in this thread, talk to a Solicitor.
 
The whole "bad reference" thing is fairly moot, when you consider that if the prospective employer has their doubts, they'll just call your current manager and ask their opinion and keep it off the record.

I think it would be naive to assume otherwise.
 
Theres an option you can use if you want to give you some time. Get signed off with stress from the docs for a couple of weeks and seek the advice whilst off.

They will immediately get a little more worried if you have been signed off recently. Try to get general malaise or something on the cert not actual stress.

Overall I would fight it. Reply that you think they must have misunderstood your intention to resign.
Its almost unheard of to sack for anthing less than gross misconduct without at least one previous documented warning.
I would be digging my contract out seeing what it says about warnings, its often verbal, written, final written. Serious but not gross misconduct can often jump straight to final written but only if they warrant it.

Try to stick it out as long as possible whilst looking hard for another job would be my call in this situation. Do everything you possibly can to meet all the requirements they can reasonably demand.
 
My take on this is that fighting it in any way will not pay dividends to anyone involved.

Places of work are essentially cliques; the least charismatic and gifted members of which will attribute the most importance to maintaining protocol and hierarchy (essentially ass-kissing and back stabbing).

For whatever reason they want you out, that's 100% clear. As a straight shooter, you've clearly offended them collectively, you probably were also being a bit of a boorish loudmouth when drunk and decrying them - I'm sure we've all done the same at some point in time too, I know I have.

My best advice is to agree to it with dignity, see out the project and finish it with utmost professionalism, don't kiss ass, but show them you're a great worker that they will be sorry to lose.

But equally maintain self respect and poise at all times and keep your integrity - this will be a tough one to pull through but if you can do it you'll be all the better for it.

Reverse psychology will come into play and by the time you leave, there will be genuine guilt and maybe some regret on their part - this should insure you a solid reference and will gain you their respect, whether they like you or not.

Played smoothly you can put a true positive on this - they want you out, but by asking you to finish a project they are acknowledging your ability to do your job. You just haven't fit in for whatever reason but it happens all the time - it's no reflection on you.

As for the future, you're either the type of person who needs to be your own boss, in which case let that drive you to be so, or learn to be more diplomatic and discrete, but essentially compromising your personality in doing so. Or you simply may have been working with a bunch of total douche bags; in which case you're better of away from them.

Whatever way, take a true positive from this, you can tough this out and learn from it.

As for the alternative?

Do you really want to exacerbate a situation with legalities? To prolong what seemingly is a futile fight? That e-mail was emphatic, you're going - one way or another - the absolute best you can do is to negotiate more severance pay due to the general financial climate - even that may be tricky.

I'm certainly not suggesting to be defeatist here - but to work it to your advantage. You'll have weeks and weeks on full pay to look for work and by maintaining at least civil relations you should guarantee a good reference.

Cost them money and hassle through outside action? You might as well write off the last 2.5 years of work. Only do this if you can claim five figure + compensation from any legal claim.


Best of luck in all this, you can still make good of it.


.
 
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Xan_Molbjerg said:
Hi guys, do to various reason I shan't pretend aren't my fault, my company wish me to leave (in no way gross negligence, just indescressions and attitude). Sat me down with all the directors, and told me to leave. My general attitude has been 'well, if that's what you all want then I guess there's nothing I can do'. I believe I said "there's no other options on the table it seems", to which one of them said "well, there's another way where things get nasty".

I got an email this morn:

"Thanks for attending our meeting this afternoon, during which you indicated that your intention is to resign. We would appreciate your assistance delivering the current project that you are working on (__________). So, in return for your full commitment to its successful conclusion, we are prepared to offer you a further one month notice on top of the contracted single month. It is estimated that there is around 3-4 weeks work remaining on this project, during which we will endeavour to be flexible and support you in your efforts to find another position. Once _________ is delivered and signed off, we will permit you to concentrate for whatever remains of the two months on finding a new role, without coming into the office.
To confirm, we will also act as employment referees for any offers you may receive.
Also, please could you provide us with a letter of resignation asap."


First off, what are you guys' reaction to this? I'm not so hot on my employment law/rules/etiquette.

Another thinking was, as I'll be looking for a job, in a hard industry, I'm not expecting anything straight away - I guess me 'resigning' would affect benefits and stuff. (blah blah dole scrounger etc).

Any words of advice greatly appreciated, thanks

(Oh yeah, company doesn't have HR as far as I'm aware)
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Hi,

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet but have you replied to this e-mail?

Basically in that e-mail they are writing something that doesn't accurately reflect your meeting with them. So basically they are lying/hiding something there for a start. Also it suggests that you wish to resign, but this isn't true it was actually them that suggested for you to resign.

I hope you take on board the advice given on here and not just soak it up like a sponge. I've found this forum full of bull,laughter and banter but sometimes you actually do get people who give good advice. :)
 
I think this whole situation has made you very stressed ;) I would make an appointment with your GP tomorrow morning and inform him of the troubles that your bosses are causing you. Enjoy 6 months holiday at their expense.
 
Isn't it against the law to give a negative reference? i.e. slating you?

Have they actually written to you with clear reasons for asking for your resignation, sounds like they ain't got doo diddly squat :)
 
vonhelmet said:
The whole "bad reference" thing is fairly moot, when you consider that if the prospective employer has their doubts, they'll just call your current manager and ask their opinion and keep it off the record.

I think it would be naive to assume otherwise.
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I can't speak for all hiring managers but I left a job on very bad terms. My new employer called up HR at my old company and only confirmed employment dates and my job title. No one spoke to anyone who could give a bad reference - as it was a big company they would have no idea who to speak to unless I gave them a name.
 
crinkleshoes said:
Conversely though... you are between a rock and a hard place.

Whilst they may feel obligated to give you a good reference... how that reference is delivered and phrased can say so much more than the content.
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They are obliged to give you are TRUTHFUL reference.

There is nothing illegal, defamatory or wrong in saying "On Project X, John Doe has missed 5 deadlines. He was late a total of 15 times in 2010. He took 22 sick days."

Read that how you like, if it is true, there is nothing John Doe can do about it.
 
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