Yes, which is the subject of this entire debate.
No one is claiming it is wrong to enquire about someone's heritage.
Asking someone where they are from
- Thread starter Lysander
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Yes, which is the subject of this entire debate.
No one is claiming it is wrong to enquire about someone's heritage.
Soldato
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Nothing wrong with asking where someone's heritage is from. There is a way of asking though and she was just rude if the transcript is accurate. TBH though I have no time for the royalty or aristocracy so I do have my own bias here.
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me?
If they are black and say they are form yorkshire then they're yorkshire.
If they say they're Jamaican they they're Jamaican.
If they're white and say they're from poland then they're polish.
I'm a liberal thinking person and having gamed and visited/had visited many of my fellow gamers, i would like to think i'm easy going.
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People character has everything to do with whether they are trustworthy in both their motives and their recollections. A slight exaggeration her, a changed word there to make things worse. Since this happened she has has been milking it for everything its worth. We have only got her recollection of the conversation and I don't know about you but I couldn't tell you of any conversation I had with someone word for word.
Who knows, it might have been worse than she said. I certainly would trust someone less if they are an ******* than someone who wasn't.
We don't. Thats what I also alluded to in my post. The point being, everything about this lady is suggesting that she has a chip on her shoulder and has blown this up on purpose for her own ends. The media rounds. Claiming it was "an abuse" and an interrogation. If you think her response to this is reasonable and proportionate then I am truly amazed.
Where have I justified a form of racism? At least try to construct an argument based on reality not things you've made up on my behalf.
Really? So what was the problem then? Just some vague accusations of racism based on the specifics of how the questions were worded? (Which is all from a multi-line convo apparently recalled from memory)
I think one claim was that asking more than once was racism, though no one seems to be able to explain why.
Basically "it's racism" and you're just supposed to accept that unquestioningly.
This should be a basic, obvious point even, but plenty of people were basing arguments over the specifics of what was said. Even if she were totally honest with good intentions then it is unlikely she would be able to recall several lines of convo exactly, as it happens we know she's not honest (she identified the woman via initials and title in one tweet and then claimed in a following tweet that she didn't want to name her then she happily facilitated multiple media interviews).
Has she recalled it accurately, that would be iffy for anyone, has she deliberately exaggerated - quite likely, she literally accused Charles and Camilla of domestic violence towards Megan, we know she's fond of hyperbolic accusations towards the Royals already.
So all we really have is that she had a convo where she was offended and where seemingly both parties were stubborn and questions about her heritage were asked and given her name and costume it's understandable why someone might be curious.
Yet one of the "it's racist" claimants has just declared above that asking about heritage is not the problem... bizarre.
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“Enjoying” might be a little bit of a stretch, but it’s definitely been interesting.
Well, interesting in the same kind of way as when you slow down a little while driving past a car crash anyway.
A car crash where half of the passengers are doing their utmost to find ever increasingly bizarre technicalities that they think allow them to avoid calling the car crash a car crash.
“Ahem, ackhtually it’s not a car crash because one of the vehicles was a van and no one ever intended to crash… Can you really be accused of having crashed if you never intended to crash?”
It seems like the total opposite tbh.. if it were so clear cut then people would be able to just say why it is racist. Your previous post was just some declaration that it was and that anyone who disagreed with you was a big bad racist.
Instead, at best it's a load of well ackchually stuff about the specifics of the "transcript" which is a recollection from memory or I think one claim was that asking repeatedly was racist or perhaps some notion that only black people ever get asked about heritage or it's racist to argue about heritage because someone is black because reasons... (that's even if we ignore the African style costume and Igbo name).
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Are we still bullying an 83 year old woman for asking someone dressed in traditional African clothing and who changed their name to a traditional African name where they're from?
Her name's Marlene Headley, why is she role playing as an African woman then being outraged when asked where she's from? lmao It's like me wearing a kilt and dressing as a Scot and then being outraged when people ask me which part of Scotland I'm from
Her name's Marlene Headley, why is she role playing as an African woman then being outraged when asked where she's from? lmao It's like me wearing a kilt and dressing as a Scot and then being outraged when people ask me which part of Scotland I'm from
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It's a bit more even, she's got an adopted Igbo name, the "African" costume looked a bit Zulu maybe and her previous outfit worn to the Palace was apparently Ethiopian national dress.
It's like an American, Hank Texas, changing his name to Paddy McIrishperson, turning up to the White House dressed in German Lederhosen and then a few weeks later coming back to another white house event dressed as something resembling a Spanish Matador.
And then getting offended when someone looked at his name badge and costume and ask where he's from... no I mean where are your people from? oetc..
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On a related note, my neighbour popped round earlier, we'd assumed he was English all these years but my wife asked him where's he originally from (meaning which part of England if not Kent) and he just replied "Oh I'm Irish". No hint of any accent or separatist views or anything. Was that racist of her to ask? Nope, he's white and we're not so we've got that free pass.
Oddly enough, he also lived on the same road i did as a child, but moved out when my dad moved there.
Sometimes it's deserved, other times not so much.
Oddly enough, he also lived on the same road i did as a child, but moved out when my dad moved there.
Sometimes it's deserved, other times not so much.
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Nonsense.
The arguments have been repeatedly made by multiple people, and have been repeatedly ignored by multiple others; and it’s precisely for that reason that I’ve not personally bothered to engage. You’re all deeply entrenched because you have emotive stakes in this topic for a variety of reasons.
In truth, it’s all breathtakingly silly and this squirming as a result is hilarious.
This doesn’t accurately describe absolutely everyone that’s taken up arms over this, but it’s no great surprise that racist people are incapable of acknowledging the racism in a racist act; in fact it’s laughably predictable.
The fact that some people have worked so hard to try and detach the label of racism from this quite frankly minor and barely worth acknowledging episode, speaks absolute volumes about their own attitudes and just cements what anyone remotely sensible would have thought about those individuals in the first place.
The fact that the action was racist didn’t need debating; it absolutely was. But this incessant, nonsensical, over defensiveness and pure refusal to acknowledge that basic fault, pushes anyone remotely moderate on the issue like myself, who felt that in spite of her less than stellar behaviour, she shouldn’t be particularly chastised for her out of touch attitude; strongly towards a position of revulsion at the sheer tenacity with which the obvious racist element of the act has been denied.
Honestly, if the response from the OCUK usual suspects had been a simple, “yeah that was insensitive, she should have done better” then that would have been it and I probably would have largely landed on your side of this debate, at least on some of the specifics; but the absolute garbage that’s been spouted since hints at some far more deeply ingrained racism in some of you than I ever realised.
This whole thread has become one giant “thou doth protest too much” - The sooner it dies the better.
Soldato
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I would remember a conversation that felt like an interrogation
Your comments are trying to lessen the racism on the racist, because she is racist also, that doesn't make it any less racist or okay
Such a typical Gordy reply, a big wall of text where he's carefully constructed sentences that give... well nothing much at all.
That's the central point though, the reason for all the fuss and your response to being criticised for simply making an assertion is to just repeat the same assertion; it's racist because it's racist. And apparently, anyone who doesn't agree is also racist.
This shouldn't be relevant, an argument should be based on its own merits not picking "sides" based on what other posters/"usual suspects" are saying. You should be able to think for yourself and simply give your reasons instead it's just a load of waffle/meta discussion with assertions made about other posters.
FWIW Plenty of people have pointed out that it was quite plausibly rude or insensitive, but the story isn't about someone being a bit rude it's about a claim of racism at the Palace.
That's the central point though, the reason for all the fuss and your response to being criticised for simply making an assertion is to just repeat the same assertion; it's racist because it's racist. And apparently, anyone who doesn't agree is also racist.
This shouldn't be relevant, an argument should be based on its own merits not picking "sides" based on what other posters/"usual suspects" are saying. You should be able to think for yourself and simply give your reasons instead it's just a load of waffle/meta discussion with assertions made about other posters.
FWIW Plenty of people have pointed out that it was quite plausibly rude or insensitive, but the story isn't about someone being a bit rude it's about a claim of racism at the Palace.
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