Assange to go!

[Collider]

So you don't think the fact that Ardin allegedly has links with an agency that represents the government which would most likely profit from his detention is relevant? Or suspicious?

Not it does not excuse him of the crime but it also casts extreme doubt when added with everything else.

Again his chances are good if he is not-guilty or if the evidence fabricated against him is poor - we can assume the US would not fall afoul of the later. So we are no wiser but should not discount either possibility lightly.

I think if someone alleges rape the prosecution (which is a non adversarial system widely recognised as stand out) has to prove that rape with evidence in court to gain a conviction.

It's not a third world country.

It is undoubtedly a timing issue that this crime was raised when he was under the spotlight but if you take that to extremes you'd have to ensure he was not charged whatever the offence in case anyone could be suspected of fitting him up and that cannot be viewed as acceptable. He could get away with almost anything if that was the case and that cannot be right. It strikes me it is in his interest to claim conspiracy if he is a sex offender.

The US could have asked for his extradition from the UK, they probably had more grounds than with some random autistic guy who likes aliens and it would be a lot less effort than fabricating sex offences in a completely unrelated third country.

Don't you think its all a bit far fetched as a conspiracy really?

 

[One]

Wasn't he already arrested on teh charges and then let go due to there being no evidence though? Then wikileaks happened and they re-opened the case?

I don't think he's hiding from the rape case tbh, he doesn't want to be extradited to America on charges fo whistle-blowing and treason and face the death penalty. He's humiliated the bullies and they're doing everything in their power to give him the wedgie of death. I think Assange would happily go to Sweden to face the trail if assurances were given that he would not be deported to America.

 

[Xordium]

Don't you think its all a bit far fetched as a conspiracy really?

Well I think I have made it quite clear I think it is rather convenient for all parties. Too convenient.

 

[Xordium]

I think Assange would happily go to Sweden to face the trail if assurances were given that he would not be deported to America.

I am not so certain of that either.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I don't think he's hiding from the rape case tbh, he doesn't want to be extradited to America on charges fo whistle-blowing and treason and face the death penalty.

Sorry, but what?

Why would an Australian citizen be charged with treason in the US? How do you commit treason against a country other than your own?

 

[Collider]

Wasn't he already arrested on teh charges and then let go due to there being no evidence though? Then wikileaks happened and they re-opened the case?

I don't think he's hiding from the rape case tbh, he doesn't want to be extradited to America on charges fo whistle-blowing and treason and face the death penalty. He's humiliated the bullies and they're doing everything in their power to give him the wedgie of death. I think Assange would happily go to Sweden to face the trail if assurances were given that he would not be deported to America.

A prosecutor dropped the charges, her senior then took them up again on review (which is apparently common, for them to be reviewed that is) and then he promptly upped sticks and left the country.

Which tends to suggest he wasn't very happy to face justice there. I think if he was madly keen to face the charges and clear his name he wouldn't have run off.

 

[Xordium]

I fail to see with all the media coverage how they could find a suitable jury and impartial trial.

 

[Collider]

Well I think I have made it quite clear I think it is rather convenient for all parties. Too convenient.

It can be made to look that way and I do see that but I find most of these things just a little too far fetched, its all involving too many people to have to do too many things..its a bit like the 9/11 conspiracy (not saying you are suggesting that, it reminds me of it) I guess I simply don't have faith in people being as well organised and conspiratorially efficient as they would have to be to actually do some of the things that are meant to be conspiracies.

 

[One]

Sorry, but what?

Why would an Australian citizen be charged with treason in the US? How do you commit treason against a country other than your own?

Have you ever heard of Guantanamo Bay? If America is upset they do what ever they want.

 

[trigger-happy]

I don't want Assange to be extradited! He's a good man spreading the truth about the corrupt governments we have on this planet.

 

[Collider]

I fail to see with all the media coverage how they could find a suitable jury and impartial trial.

Is the coverage really big in Sweden? No idea myself but I wonder if it's playing as large there as it is here.

In any case trials in Sweden are not jury based in the criminal courts. They have a jury system for press cases but the courts are not structured in the same way as in the UK and its a lay judge and professional judge system.

Interesting summary here

http://polis.osce.org/countries/f/71/185/The Swedish judicial system.pdf

 

[philip2009]

Live from the embassy, oh the excitement - http://bambuser.com/v/2905015

 

[RomanNose]

Live from the embassy, oh the excitement - http://bambuser.com/v/2905015

Thanks, I think I might watch it all night.

 

[Xordium]

I don't want Assange to be extradited! He's a good man spreading the truth about the corrupt governments we have on this planet.

Sarcasm tags needed.

 

[Ricochet J]

Does the US have jurisdiction to sentence a non US national to death?

 

[kibblerok]

Assange is getting stitched up no doubt, I don't believe he's been charged yet anyway has he?

In any case this is a stupid move for the British government over pretty much nothing that could have severe ramifications for British embassies across the world.

Hague was quick to moan when student protestors stormed the British embassy in Iran... And that wasn't even the governments doing.... What kind of message does that send out to the world if we go wading into the Ecuadorean embassy?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/29/iranian-students-storm-british-embassy

 

[Collider]

Live from the embassy, oh the excitement - http://bambuser.com/v/2905015

Look at those Coppers, poised for storming the Embassy in a moment of massive injustice.

Or googling the local dunkin' donuts on their Iphones.

One or the other.

 

[Collider]

Live from the embassy, oh the excitement - http://bambuser.com/v/2905015

Do you know and I should go to bed but this is actually quite funny. Don't think its meant to be a comedy though.

The chap doing it is interviewing his own mate who has met 'hundreds' of Ecuadorians who are "disgusted with what is happening!"

I've never met anyone from Ecuador, I feel slightly envious.

Must turn it off.

 

[fini]

Interesting article on how that 'isn't rape' here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/10/AR2010121002571.html

I think the 'its not rape' says more about the views on sex offences held by people who support Assange than it does about Swedish law on consent withdrawal.

The problem with that article is that it's nonsense - as can be seen by reading reports that actually report on the facts of the case rather than trying to be sensationalist.

The claim of pinning Woman A down comes from some pretty rubbish reporting of how the Swedish prosecutors have split up the counts that they may charge him with. The issue, which in Sweden is 'unlawful coercion', is an 'otherwise' offence if the rape claim fails - fundamentally that Woman A felt coerced in not clarifying her consent position by the fact that he was on top of her (it relates to the sex whilst sleeping incident). Fundamentally it's a fall-back position legally. It's been poorly reported and thus looks like a further act. The victim also went on record three days after the alleged offence saying "He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him", which is pretty specific.

Your opinion might be that his actions (as alleged) should be considered rape, but that's not the legal opinion pretty much anywhere outside of Sweden. This isn't about personal opinion - it's about looking at what's actually being claimed and comparing it against rape laws throughout Europe. Pretty much anywhere else in Europe there would be no way a rape case could be brought.

 

[Collider]

The problem with that article is that it's nonsense - as can be seen by reading reports that actually report on the facts of the case rather than trying to be sensationalist.

The claim of pinning Woman A down comes from some pretty rubbish reporting of how the Swedish prosecutors have split up the counts that they may charge him with. The issue, which in Sweden is 'unlawful coercion', is an 'otherwise' offence if the rape claim fails - fundamentally that Woman A felt coerced in not clarifying her consent position by the fact that he was on top of her (it relates to the sex whilst sleeping incident). Fundamentally it's a fall-back position legally. It's been poorly reported and thus looks like a further act. The victim also went on record three days after the alleged offence saying "He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him", which is pretty specific.

Your opinion might be that his actions (as alleged) should be considered rape, but that's not the legal opinion pretty much anywhere outside of Sweden. This isn't about personal opinion - it's about looking at what's actually being claimed and comparing it against rape laws throughout Europe. Pretty much anywhere else in Europe there would be no way a rape case could be brought.

Actually its about what the Swedish choose to charge him with, which is a law in their country, not what I or indeed you think.

I think its a little poor and somewhat excludes discussion to suggest someone who disagrees with you has not read the right articles, but should you want to proceed on that basis, you've obviously not read the right articles or you would agree with me.