Assange to go!

[PlacidCasual]

Both the UK US Extradition Treaty and the EU Arrest Warrant suffer the same unacceptable flaws. There is no requirement for habeus corpus, to prove a crime has been committed. Thier is no requirement for prima facie evidence, minimum evidence to show a case needs to be answered. There is no requirement for dual criminality that the crime is a crime in the UK (or near equivalent) as well as the requesting country.

So there a many many examples where these powers have been misused by foreign courts and UK ones.

So a suitable warrant only needs to be presented before a UK court and their only judgement is whether you are the person that has been requested. They don't have to demonstrate to a UK court that a crime has actually occurred. They don't have to demonstrate that there is a reasonable case justifying you stand trial. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a crime in the UK.

The NatWest 3 for instance worked in the UK for a UK bank and were investigated by UK authorities who decided there was no case to answer. They were extradited to the US where the court system was used to force them into a plea bargain. Justice at its finest. A British holiday maker in Greece was extradited for murder/manslaughter despite being able to prove that he had left Greece before the crime happened, his parents were indebted by the process of having to pay for Greek legal representation. The NHS in Southampton got a UK court to produce an EU Arrest Warrant for the parents of an ill young boy (Ashia King?) because they chose to take him abroad for treatment, a Spanish court was obliged to arrest and deport them whilst his teenage siblings looked after the ill young child.

The UK-US Extradition Treaty is beyond the pale and the EU Arrest Warrant the same there are many cases where if evidence had required to be presented to UK judge the extradition would rightly never have happened.

Assange is a deeply divisive character and seemingly quite an odious one. But from my understanding of the case he has been treated badly and wouldn't see justice in the US. If we are happy to forgo justice because we don't like the person affected we don't believe in justice at all.

 

[Mr Jack]

The EU arrest warrant is a necessary component of a system of free movement and especially across the Schengen area; you can't have a system where people can casually skip across non-existent borders and thumb their nose at the law. I'm not going to drag discussion of the cases you mention into this thread.

But I do agree with much of your criticism of the US treaty, although I don't think they're really relevant to the Assange case. There does not seem to be any reason to doubt that he's credibly accused, and it's not the role of the court in the country being extradited from to make a finding of guilt or innocent only to determine whether there is a prima facie case. Even if the UK court was being called upon to decide whether he has a case against him, they would surely do so.

 

[GGizmo]

I would relish him going back to Oz however they don't particularly want him back and they would probably send him to the USA anyway. We appear to be the soft option for desperate characters likely to bring everyone into disrepute and are expected to fund their lifestyle as well.

How many spies died or were imprisoned due to his rash reporting?

Australia want him back.

Julian Assange: Australian politicians call for release of WikiLeaks founder

The vote - passed with overwhelming support - comes ahead of his final appeal against US extradition.

www.bbc.co.uk

Australian MPs voted 86-42 that Mr Assange should be allowed to come home. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who supported the motion, has called for the Assange case to come to a "conclusion" since taking office in 2022.

If they want to extradite him then it's up to them. He's their citizen.

 

[Grim5]

Oh dear. So sad.

Why sad? Lots of criminals commit suicide to avoid justice it's quite common actually

 

[Hagar]

Australia want him back.

If they want to extradite him then it's up to them. He's their citizen.

It must have been a previous prime minister not wanting him back.

I can imagine though if the US case was dropped and a case brought for deportation to his home country that he would be screaming blue murder in the courts about his human rights and for a settled existence with his English family in the UK. He is that sort of bloke, a virus. All at taxpayers expense too.

 

[Sankari]

Australia want him back.

Politicians want him back, because they think it's a vote winner.

Remember when we were told Assange must be kept out of prison because otherwise he'll commit suicide? That was nearly 5 years ago, and he's still alive. Remember when we were told Assange was being tortured to death in prison? That was also nearly 5 years ago, and he's still alive. Remember when we were told Assange's health was so poor, he could die any minute? That was... yep, you guessed it.

I wish I had a dollar for every lie Assange and his groupies have told. I could retire tomorrow.

It must have been a previous prime minister not wanting him back.

I can imagine though if the US case was dropped and a case brought for deportation to his home country that he would be screaming blue murder in the courts about his human rights and for a settled existence with his English family in the UK. He is that sort of bloke, a virus. All at taxpayers expense too.

Our current PM has publicly stated his opposition to US extradition. He wants Assange home in Australia and roaming free, without any legal consequences whatsoever.

'Anthony Albanese says he's working with Julian Assange's team on strategy to bring him home.'

 

[GGizmo]

It must have been a previous prime minister not wanting him back.

I can imagine though if the US case was dropped and a case brought for deportation to his home country that he would be screaming blue murder in the courts about his human rights and for a settled existence with his English family in the UK. He is that sort of bloke, a virus. All at taxpayers expense too.

I think a legal case against going back to Australia would be very weak.

As it stands today he's not convicted of any crime yet as done a long sentence. The situation is starting to leave a stain on our justice system.

He either needs to be released or deported to Australia in my view.

 

[Mr Jack]

I think a legal case against going back to Australia would be very weak.

It would be an absolute slam dunk. He is under extradition proceedings to the US; the UK has a legal duty under our law to complete that process.

As it stands today he's not convicted of any crime yet as done a long sentence. The situation is starting to leave a stain on our justice system.

Again, the only reason he is locked up at all is because of his own actions. Had he not chosen to skip bail in order to avoid a fair trial for rape, he would not be locked up currently.

 

[Cosimo]

Our current PM has publicly stated his opposition to US extradition.

When did he do that?

 

[GGizmo]

It would be an absolute slam dunk. He is under extradition proceedings to the US; the UK has a legal duty under our law to complete that process.

I'll pay as much attention to extradition as the US did with Anne Sacoolas.

Again, the only reason he is locked up at all is because of his own actions. Had he not chosen to skip bail in order to avoid a fair trial for rape, he would not be locked up currently.

The case was dropped. As soon as the US started acting the fool, and the extradition to Sweden was dropped, I'd have sent him back to Australia.

Australia is kinda getting slapped around in all this. I'm sure if it was Russia and China talking about their citizen the attitude would be more hostile.

 

[Mr Jack]

I'll pay as much attention to extradition as the US did with Anne Sacoolas.

I'm not sure why you thinking running roughshod over our own laws is a good response to that particular travesty?

The case was dropped. As soon as the US started acting the fool, and the extradition to Sweden was dropped, I'd have sent him back to Australia.

The case was dropped because Assange spent so long squatting in the Ecuadorian embassy to avoid a fair trial that it could no longer be pursued. After he was eventually kicked out of the Embassy, he was arrested and tried and imprisoned for skipping bail. By the time he was to be released from that, the US request for extradition had been received. There was never a time he could have been legally deported to Australia.

 

[Sankari]

When did he do that?

More than a year ago; I think it was 2022. Ever since then, he's been pushing for the US to drop the charges against Assange, and complaining about the lack of progress.

 

[Werewolf]

I think a legal case against going back to Australia would be very weak.

As it stands today he's not convicted of any crime yet as done a long sentence. The situation is starting to leave a stain on our justice system.

He either needs to be released or deported to Australia in my view.

He's not done "any sentence"

He's been confined to prevent him running away again whilst he fights the case, exactly like any other person that has proven to the legal system that he's going to try and do runner.

And as has been said, he locked himself away in the embassy for long enough the original case basically couldn't proceed, so far ALL the time he's been "locked up" has been down to his own actions and choices by trying to avoid extradition to a country that would have rather amusingly have been far safer for him than the UK in regards to any US extradition attempt. If he hadn't tried to run away the first time he'd almost certainly never have seen time inside any English jail as we don't tend to lock up non violent people who are going through the court system.

The sad thing for Assange in all this, is that he'd likely have been out of any US jail by now (and likely earning a nice living off his "memoires" and speeches etc) if he'd not done a runner, even if he'd been convicted.

And this isn't a "stain on our legal system" when what we're seeing is someone who is a proven flight risk and has broken UK law (by doing the runner), getting every chance at due process, whilst at the same time the legal system has treated him at least as well as anyone else who has set out to deliberately evade court.

 

[Mr Jack]

He's not done "any sentence"

That's not quite correct. He was give a 50 week sentence for skipping bail (of which he would serve half). That small, also self-inflicted, part was indeed a sentence.

If he hadn't tried to run away the first time he'd almost certainly never have seen time inside any English jail as we don't tend to lock up non violent people who are going through the court system.

Can't be said enough times.

 

[Werewolf]

That's not quite correct. He was give a 50 week sentence for skipping bail (of which he would serve half). That small, also self-inflicted, part was indeed a sentence.



Can't be said enough times.

Sorry I missed that one, although I'm guessing that didn't really make much difference given he was going to be detained to prevent him running away again anyway

 

[GGizmo]

I'm not sure why you thinking running roughshod over our own laws is a good response to that particular travesty?

Because the US slapped us in the face by refusing extradition when we were doing them a favour by holding Assange.

We need to rewrite the extradition laws. Because the UK government as done it's usually trick of not defending the people or the integrity of our system.

I'm surprised as a pro European you still want the UK to extradite with no questions asked. Many of the EU countries, particularly Germany, would have a whole internal process, and only if the extradition was justified under their system would it be considered.

 

[Mr Jack]

Because the US slapped us in the face by refusing extradition when we were doing them a favour by holding Assange.

We weren't "doing them a favour", we were following our own laws.

We need to rewrite the extradition laws. Because the UK government as done it's usually trick of not defending the people or the integrity of our system.

I'm surprised as a pro European you still want the UK to extradite with no questions asked. Many of the EU countries, particularly Germany, would have a whole internal process, and only if the extradition was justified under their system would it be considered.

As I said in my reply to PlacidCasual above, I do think that the US-UK extradition has many issues but I don't think any of them would affect the extradition of Assange. But regardless of whether we think the treaty is correct, it is the current law of the UK - and the laws should be followed not arbitrarily overridden in an exercise of tit-for-tat over an unrelated event.

 

[Cosimo]

More than a year ago; I think it was 2022. Ever since then, he's been pushing for the US to drop the charges against Assange, and complaining about the lack of progress.

Pity you can't find a link to Rishi and that link has no mention of Rishi only Albanese.

 

[Sankari]

Pity you can't find a link to Rishi and that link has no mention of Rishi only Albanese.

I wasn't talking about Rishi, I was talking about Albanese! I'm Australian, remember? He's my PM. Why would you think I was talking about Rishi?

 

[GGizmo]

As I said in my reply to PlacidCasual above, I do think that the US-UK extradition has many issues but I don't think any of them would affect the extradition of Assange. But regardless of whether we think the treaty is correct, it is the current law of the UK - and the laws should be followed not arbitrarily overridden in an exercise of tit-for-tat over an unrelated event.

There are exceptions we can use like in the case of Gary McKinnon.

Gary McKinnon - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Or Lauri Love.

Lauri Love - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

They were mainly blocked because of the human rights act 1998, which is based on the ECHR.

There is an open door if the government wanted to use it.