Assault rifles and military-style semi-automatics have been banned in New Zealand

RaohNS · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:27

VincentHanna said:
Yes, but most of these mass casualty events aren't caused with handguns.

Yes... They are...
https://www.statista.com/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

You cant just make up a definition of "mass shooting" when mass shooting is defined already. Bit like mod team defining what words mean here funnily enough. How someone can be called a "nut" for example provided they are anti a certain orange person

VincentHanna · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:28

I said mass casualty, not mass shooting.

Minusorange · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:29

VincentHanna said:
I don't see the relevance though. The guy specifically attacked a Mosque with a semi-automatic rifle.

You might as well have said: Difficult to say how many died because they weren't wearing body armor

Irrelevant.

I'm not surprised you don't see it, because you're in cloud cuckoo land

Because your question was how "Successful" would he have been with sugar bombs, or pressure cooker bombs

I'd say he would have been pretty close in being "Successful" because the victims were stuck in an enclosed space

Had they been out on the streets then obviously bombs wouldn't be as effective

Do you understand or do you need me to crayon some images for you ?

ttaskmaster · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:29

Greebo · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:29

Lord-Jaffa said:
"The Government has fallen short of banning all semi-automatic weapons, acknowledging that a number of low calibre semi-automatic weapons were vital in New Zealand's pest control efforts."

Are you being dim on purpose?

No I said that there was no need for people to own military semi automatic and automatic rifles and your link confirmed that rather than dispute that. I don’t think low calibration semi automatic weapons used by pest control is the same as military semi automatic weapons? Do you? Or are you been dim on purpose?

Lord-Jaffa · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:30

VincentHanna said:
Can you name some recent mass casualty terror events where a bow and arrow was the primary weapon?

If that was the case then surely banning home made bombs would stop all the killings in this manner, oh, wait....

If somebody wants to go out and do these insane incidents of violence, they will always find a way, eroding peoples rights as knee jerk reactions just funnels into extremism.

RaohNS · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:31

VincentHanna said:
I don't see the relevance though. The guy specifically attacked a Mosque with a semi-automatic rifle.
.

November 2015 Paris Shootings killed 137 and wounded hundreds more. Automatic weapons are illegal in France. Killing is illegal in every country....

VincentHanna · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:31

Minusorange said:
I'm not surprised you don't see it, because you're in cloud cuckoo land

Because your question was how "Successful" would he have been with sugar bombs, or pressure cooker bombs

No it wasn't - Feel free to find that "quote"

My STATEMENT was literally thus:

This thread is ridiculous

My question was:

Are you seriously making the argument that the terrorist in New Zealand would have been as successful with a Sugar Rocket?

So basically you are making the argument that he would have killed 50 people in a mosque with a sugar rocket?

RaohNS · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:32

Lord-Jaffa said:
If that was the case then surely banning home made bombs would stop all the killings in this manner, oh, wait....

If somebody wants to go out and do these insane incidents of violence, they will always find a way, eroding peoples rights as knee jerk reactions just funnels into extremism.

*true

Felon · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:32

Minusorange said:
Depends on your criteria for defining success, if it's to create terror then yes he'd be successful with sugar bombs, hell he could have thrown a bunch of pressure cooker bombs into the mosque and had success

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombing

If you're going purely off death toll, because "reasons" then maybe he won't kill as many although it's difficult to tell how many died because they were stuck in the mosque as opposed to be able to flee if he'd attacked people on a street, even with a gun you only aim at 1 person at a time

I think you're just being silly, it's not even close to reality.

Bombs require very specific expertise to make, specific ingredients, all of which have to be carefully obtained, which takes time, have to be combined without any mistakes being made, then the thing has to be delivered to a specific place and set to go off, rigged, hidden or whatever.

In the final analysis, if you want to kill lots of people quickly and easily, use assault rifles - there's literally no better way..

C.R.A.Z.Y · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:33

NZ have introduced the law to make it impossible for a repeat atrocity like Chirstchurch to ever happen again.
By definition it's impossible to fail, just like Dunblane.

I'm happy to admit that my ignorance on mice had me mess up on the first trapping. I was unaware that mice weigh like a feather and the fact I'd just got back from the pub after a skinful didn't help. Little sod nearly gave me a heart attack when he came shooting out the tube

Lord-Jaffa · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:34

Psycho Sonny said:
So what pests do you need a gun for that you couldn't get rid of with other means? be it bear traps, poisoned bait, cages, etc, etc.

"The government said the police and military would be exempt, as would businesses carrying out professional pest control. Access for international shooting competitions would also be considered."

I don't know, the government of NZ doesn't seem to agree with you though on the matter, Maybe you should ask them instead?

ianh · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:35

The_Abyss said:
Don't get me wrong, I doubt that we'll ever agree.

True, but it's nice to have an adult conversation about a very serious subject anyway.

The_Abyss said:
It is just with your position people continue to be at a higher risk of being killed with firearms than they do with mine.

Yeap, thats a sad truth I agree but I think the number of deaths by firearms in the UK/NZ is tiny compared to the huge amount of deaths caused by things that which we hardly pay attention too. For example in the UK in 2017 there were 32 shooting deaths but we had 1710 car crash deaths in the same time. We 'should' be absolutely appalled by the number car deaths and have it debated in parliament, on the front page of newspapers etc but we're not appalled so instead the tiny number of 32 gun deaths (only 1.8% of the total car deaths) gets all the press in comparison because we have a primal reaction to violent death caused by another. The US on the other hand, wow

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Please explain to me how the Aborigines and Native Americans managed to cope just fine for centuries without them?

Pest control effects "agriculture" i.e. massive industrialised farms, which neither of those groups were using. Just as an example, in a 1 month period over 3 farms I did pest control for, I would kill between 50-200 rats depending on the time of year etc. Thats between 600-2400 rats every year on just 3 farms. The there's the crows which eat the feed and seeds and peck the eyes out of lambs/piglets, the rabbits which eat the seed, crops and damage the land with their burrows - all of which need their numbers reducing constantly to keep the land healthy and the farmer able to produce food. so again, it's not a blood-lust killing spree, it's a measured continuous cull by people who don't want to see animals suffer as we try to keep the numbers 'just' below nuisance levels without killing them completely or allowing them to breed too much, both of which ruins the food chain and destroys the land.

However, as mentioned in my previous posts, I'm not trying to "change your mind" on firearms, I'm just giving you the information from "the other side" of firearms ownership so that you're aware of it, no matter how much you disagree with it.

RaohNS · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:37

VincentHanna said:
I said mass casualty, not mass shooting.

Casualty:
A person KILLED or injured

I swear this site is terrible for making up stuff on words.

Minusorange · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:38

VincentHanna said:
My question was:
So basically you are making the argument that he would have killed 50 people in a mosque with a sugar rocket?

You asked question, I gave answer with logical reason to assert why he might have been as successful with Sugar Bombs, not rockets

Somebody could turn a sugar rocket into a bomb

You asked if he would be as successful, I was asking criteria for success ? If a terrorist creates terror he has succeeded no ?

Maybe it would be easy if I crayon it all for you as it seems to be more to your level of understanding

RaohNS · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:41

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
NZ have introduced the law to make it impossible for a repeat atrocity like Chirstchurch to ever happen again.
By definition it's impossible to fail, just like Dunblane.

Are all guns being turned in?

This post is extremely hubristic in its claim. So by your definition we should never see another shooting in NZ?

VincentHanna · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:42

Minusorange said:
You asked question, I gave answer with logical reason to assert why he might have been as successful with Sugar Bombs, not rockets

Maybe it would be easy if I crayon it all for you as it seems to be more to your level of understanding

Wow you are so right

I wonder why he chose an AR-15 with bump stock and not a sugar bomb, it boggles the mind.

Lord-Jaffa · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:42

VincentHanna said:
Bit off topic, but I don't really buy the re-wilding argument.

We have Sheep/Cattle etc penned in to fields, and people want to re-introduce wolves to that eco-system?

Apex Predators are extremely important to an ecosystem,

C.R.A.Z.Y · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:43

The ban was to stop another mass shooting involving legally held semi-automatic rifles like the ones used in Christchurch.
At the end of the phasing out stage that actuality is IMPOSSIBLE

RaohNS · 21 Mar 2019 at 16:46

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
The ban was to stop another mass shooting involving legally held semi-automatic rifles like the ones used in Christchurch.
At the end of the phasing out stage that actuality is IMPOSSIBLE

It will only be impossible when you ban people. As I responded earlier: France has a highly illegal element you cannot have automatic weapons. In Nov 2015 we saw people were able to break that law and kill nearly 3 times as many people.