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Assault rifles and military-style semi-automatics have been banned in New Zealand

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by [FnG]magnolia, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,837

    And again that isn't a reason to give them even easier access to them....

    As already explained the point is to not allow the use of semi automatic firearms in order to try and help prevent or at least reduce the ability of people to conduct mass shootings. Unlike the US we don't have a big issue with them, I'd quite like to keep it that way.

    This doesn't mean that no one is ever going to get shot or that criminals will never be able to get hold of firearms or that someone can't run over people with a car. None of those points negate the usefulness of banning semi auto rifles.
     
  2. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,496

    Location: Dublin / LA

    I cannot argue with somebody, who thinks that laws are essentially ineffective and a waste of time, so we should make it permissible for full-auto machineguns to be legal, because someone with such opinions is clearly out of their mind, and totally unreachable.
     
  3. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,837

    I think he's just gone a bit full ****** and is throwing out all sorts of crazy stuff about cutting limbs off and allowing people to use machine-guns or giving people an apache helicopter because he doesn't really have an argument.

    The breaking things down into ever smaller quotes in order to reply to things a sentence at a time is a bit tedious but the argument just seems to be along the same lines - somehow because other things can be used for killing then we should allow semi auto firearms??? It just isn't an argument.
     
  4. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,181

    Look at how many people carry guns in the US and look at how many times they have actually been useful in self defense or preventing mass killings. Next to none...

    Guns are only useful for protection if everyone already knows what to aim at. In a warzone that's easy, on the street, nope. Someone can pull a gun out and kill 20 people before anyone realises what's going on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  5. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 9,630

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  6. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,837

    Great more multi quotes.... I guess this little snippet perhaps sums it up well:

    If that is the position then fair enough, I can see why you'd not care/would be happy to allow semi automatic rifles. But for most people who'd rather not be living in an environment where firearms like that are easily available it seems pretty sensible to not allow them.

    This is the other recurring flaw, along with the "but cars/[insert other stuff] can be used to kill people too:

    see previous post:

    You seem to want to deal in absolutes... just because some people still get shot in the UK doesn't mean our policy towards firearms is flawed. Especially when you compare with the likes of US cities... it is pretty obvious what would happen if various London gangs had easier access to various weapons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  7. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,496

    Location: Dublin / LA

    Make no mistake, I'm doing no such thing and you know it.

    Unfortunately, I think your perspective is so fundamentally broken, no reasonable argument from anyone will get through or make a difference to that broken perspective - so there's no point continuing, other than simply see who gives in first - which I can't be bothered with, because it's a waste of time.
     
  8. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 9,630

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  9. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,837

    It isn't thanks to nanny state restrictions but rather it is down to reality, plenty of people can't be trusted not to be ***** thus it is probably not a good idea to allow automatic or semi automatic weapons to be easily available.

    No, hardly a token gesture. Also who said you can't tackle underlying causes too?
     
  10. Strife212

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 15, 2007

    Posts: 16,545

    This is just false, robberies/small crimes are often prevented.
     
  11. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

    Posts: 4,874

    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    Strife212 is correct, it's widely reported by various studies that there's anywhere between *108,000 to 3 million "Defensive Gun Uses (DGU's)" per year in the US, where a DGU is classed as "the use or presentation of a firearm for self-defence, defence of others or in some cases, protecting property." so saying that the number of times they're used in self defence is "next to none" is false, it's actually a common occurrence.

    *different studies use different figures but those are the min/max figures
     
  12. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,837

    He didn't comment on the number of times they were used but the number of times they've been useful in "self defence or preventing mass killings". I suspect he's thinking of situations in which shots are being fired.
     
  13. edscdk

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 17, 2008

    Posts: 6,879

    It should be law everyone carries an ak47, a kilo of heroine and a suiside vest...ban cars (as they are dangerous) any **** goes down everyone safe as the purp gonna get shot down or blown up in seconds....
     
  14. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,181

    108,000 to 3 million lol, so basically no one knows. How many are successful? A citizen with a gun didn't stop ANY of the mass shooting over the last few years.

    Around 40,000 people were killed by guns in the US last year. I bet many of those were also carrying a gun for protection...
     
  15. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,496

    Location: Dublin / LA

    This was linked in another thread a while ago, I thought it was quite interesting because it highlights the fact that even if you're armed, the average person has no time to react or are able to do so in an effective way, when placed in a situation such as a mass shooting.

    (the rage in the comments is also quite entertaining)

     
  16. Jumper118

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

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    Location: Leeds

    yes in the case where someone is attack you it wont help, but in a case where someone else is being attacked you can be a massive help.
     
  17. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

    Posts: 4,874

    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    The various studies use different definitions of a DGU, hence the wide variation in numbers, neither of which BTW are "Next to none" which is what you claimed as a fact.
     
  18. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,964

    Only if you don’t shoot the victim and become the attacker yourself...

    They ‘can’... I’d rather someone didn’t point another gun in my vicinity tyvm.
     
  19. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2014

    Posts: 3,496

    Location: Dublin / LA

    Not necessarily.

    In the Dallas police shooting, there was a situation where general members of the public were running around with guns, trying to 'help' all it did was cause confusion and slowed down law enforcement.

    https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-dallas-chief-20160711-snap-story.html

     
  20. ianh

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 12, 2007

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    Location: Saudi and occasionally Stoke.

    It's a great video to show why you absolutely must take your responsibilities as a concealed carry permit user seriously and train constantly (and not with toys) to reduce that all too human "flight/flight" reaction delay. However far too many CC's think that carrying a concealed weapon will suddenly make them an elite tier 1 operator etc when infact the vast majority are untrained folks who'll just make the situation worse.