At least 100 Dead in Train Derailment

Amp34 said:
And you don't think it would be exactly the same here given the chance?

People have to work, so are forced to take jobs in locations that may be dangerous. They don't do it by "choice", but by need.
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No, because we are a more 'developed country' and H&S has been proven to work and has taken many years of investment, research, and understanding..

The massive investment needed in countries like India, just won't happen.

Pump millions into a country that doesn't care about the poorest, and you are just adding to the problem.
 
That was us 70-100 years ago. Then we slowly built up our health and safety requirements.

We are "developed" in part because we built up a set of health and safety laws. India just needs to do the same thing there - which it is doing, slowly.

When health and safer laws came into force here im sure there were plenty of rich that didn't want them - but they were forced through for the good of the country, just like India is and will do.

You're arguing like the UK (and much of the western world) hasn't been in exactly the same situation in the past. India is just a little further back in the development cycle.
 
This is sad. Common sense could avoid a lot of deaths in India. RIP to all those who died.

The fact they can afford a space program but not the basics to save life..... sigh.
 
helpimcrap said:
The fact they can afford a space program but not the basics to save life..... sigh.
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sigh, at people keep sprouting such rubbish. The space program is a net benefit which brings in more money than it costs, so you wont them to be even poorer by dismantling it. how about the full hog and get rid of any government spending that increases their economics.

we should be spending more on things like space, and other high tech endeavours, as again its a very good net benefit.

What common sense is that? choice between traveling on otside of train to job, or having no job..


Sigh indeed.
 
Glaucus said:
sigh, at people keep sprouting such rubbish. The space program is a net benefit which brings in more money than it costs, so you wont them to be even poorer by dismantling it. how about the full hog and get rid of any government spending that increases their economics.

we should be spending more on things like space, and other high tech endeavours, as again its a very good net benefit.

What common sense is that? choice between traveling on otside of train to job, or having no job..


Sigh indeed.
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Basic H&S is not rocket science.
 
helpimcrap said:
Basic H&S is not rocket science.
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rofl. it costs a lot of money, money they don't have due to a poor gdp per capita.

again do you want these people to have no job? how else are they meant to travel.

it was a stupid statment, followed up by another stupid statement.

its unsurprising that as gdp grows per capita then things like H&S, human rights, consumer rights etc get stronger.
 
Glaucus said:
sThe space program is a net benefit which brings in more money than it costs,
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How much does the Indian space 'project' benefit the Indian economy.

Invest the money in the country , or spend millions on taking photos of a planet ?.
 
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Glaucus said:
rofl. it costs a lot of money, money they don't have due to a poor gdp per capita.

again do you want these people to have no job? how else are they meant to travel.

it was a stupid statment, followed up by another stupid statement.

its unsurprising that as gdp grows per capita then things like H&S, human rights, consumer rights etc get stronger.
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Whatever, I bow down to your superior intellect ignoring basic things like investing in a space program but not in keeping people who could become astronauts or rocket scientists alive.
 
Brizzles said:
How much does the Indian space 'project' benefit the Indian economy.

Invest the money in the country , or spend millions on taking photos of a planet.
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many government investments are a net loss.
space program is not, i don't have figures for IRSO, but NASA has a 7-14x ROI.
So it is investing the money in teh country, what else is it.

so yes space programs bringing back far more money than they expand. As do lots of high tech industries.

but lets all be silly and tell them to rip it up and not get that profit and make their economy poorer, because that sensible isn't it.
 
helpimcrap said:
Whatever, I bow down to your superior intellect ignoring basic things like investing in a space program but not in keeping people who could become astronauts or rocket scientists alive.
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more silly statements, where did i say anything along those lines, simple fact is it costs a lot of money, money they do not have.

again do you want these people to be banned and it enforced and have no job, or do you want them to grow their economy so they can slowly implament such H&S as time and money progresses.

unfortunate we don't live in utopia where you can just wave a wond and over night everything massively improved.

rather than places like india and china, its places like USA which should be massively ashamed, with there large GDP per capita.
 
Rifte said:
India's view on the importance of health and safety is also non existent.
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Bang on. And that's how it should be.

The externalisation of one's own safety onto the state is ruining humanity. "health and safety" basically nurtures retardation and allows it to become more genetically established by keeping stupid people alive and allowing them to reproduce.
 
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I'm just going to assume that's some prime trolling, as I don't see how that could possibly be the logical conclusion from this.
 
Rroff said:
I'd have thought from your time in Asia it wouldn't be so surprising - so many seem to go around oblivious to danger. That said its getting almost as bad here - surprised there aren't more accidents - on my way to work 9 out of 10 pedestrians just walk out without checking if its clear when crossing roads.
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Indeed, my first train ride was from Mumbai to Goa in India. As we were leaving CST Mumbai, I saw a LOT of people on the rail line first thing showering, washing etc in the waterways by the side of the track. So really not that hard to believe the figure of 15,000 is there to be honest.
 
asim18 said:
Bang on. And that's how it should be.

The externalisation of one's own safety onto the state is ruining humanity. "health and safety" basically nurtures retardation and allows it to become more genetically established by keeping stupid people alive and allowing them to reproduce.
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And it leads to some of them being allowed to post on the Internet as well :eek:
 
asim18 said:
Bang on. And that's how it should be.

The externalisation of one's own safety onto the state is ruining humanity. "health and safety" basically nurtures retardation and allows it to become more genetically established by keeping stupid people alive and allowing them to reproduce.
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I was first thinking WTF are you typing and then thought you do have a point however one of the best things Unions have done for the working man is H&S, especially in a factory setting.

Let's take an example of my Mother:
For weeks staff had been complaining about cardboard packing being left loose, some had complained that the track domestic appliances were on needed guards so they couldn't fall of, staff complained that a 6 foot metal rack holding parts needed bolting down and my Mother had complained that she should not be standing in a gangway to do her work. All these jobs had not been taken notice off and one day a truck banged into the cardboard, which fell into a fridge freezer, which fell onto the metal rack and then onto my Mother who was hospitalised. Within 1 hour all 4 things were sorted and my Mum eventually had a big payout.
That particular incident caused a backlash and anything that a worker deemed unsafe got sorted immediately. I was the H&S Union Representative and I can honestly say if a worker complained about something it was unsafe.

Now let's move forward to my job now and some of the Personal Injury cases that land on my desk and your post is bang on. One of my particular favourites but I have dozens of them:
In a certain department that needed staff to wear PPE's the instructions on the wall were to sit on the bench, put on your PPE's, swivel on the bench and then stand up the other side, quite simple. This particular staff member had stepped over the bench, took a fall and damaged their knee. We lost because the words weren't big enough and the staff member hadn't attended a course showing how to use the bench. I've got loads of them.

So yes Asim, there is a lot of truth in what you say.
 
Brizzles said:
I'll go out on a limb here, and condense it

The majority of Indian ( and similar ) economy is export - mass produce as cheap as possible.

The employers in these companies have little, to no regard, to the safety, and welfare, of their employees.

You only have to look at factory fires etc. so see that human life is expendable if you can cut costs.

The people in charge of these ' standards ' are also Indian ( and similar ) and do not protest at, or demand improvements in, safety standards - They put their jobs before the safety of the fellow countrymen.

So don't paint a glossy picture, when the truth is hard to swallow.
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??? What glossy picture am I painting?
 
asim18 said:
Bang on. And that's how it should be.

The externalisation of one's own safety onto the state is ruining humanity. "health and safety" basically nurtures retardation and allows it to become more genetically established by keeping stupid people alive and allowing them to reproduce.
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**No personal attacks!**

The design and running of my working environment is in my remit as an employee there? Someone getting killed by a falling hammer is an example of evolution in action? Those poor people who died sitting in a train earlier today are helping the gene pool because the species needs fewer people who have the sit-in-a-train gene?

**No personal attacks!**
 
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