Atos subcontracts disability tests to NHS

Seems to me that if their report indicates yes you are fit for work then when DWP tell you that you are fit for work because of the repor they have received from Atos....uhmm doesnt that mean that yes Atos do decide : they provide the evidence either way. DWP act on what evidence Atos gives them.
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Well they are supposed to base a decision on the report atos make.
atos report is based on the medical evidence you provide which atos like to dismiss even though it's from people far more qualified than someone with general nursing experience.

It's all backwards, they should cut out ATOS and stop them being the middle man.....

why cant the DWP just base a decision on the medical evidence people can provide?

DWP decision is not final either you can take it to a tribunal where 3 qualified individuals make a decision based on the medical evidence that atos dismissed.

But as someone else said ATOS are here to take the blame away from the goverment , they are clearly given targets to meet
 
Stretch said:
Or people that disagree with the sentiment will attempt to spin what's been said in the most negative way as possible.
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So you spin it first and in a way that makes it difficult for the opposition to spin it their way - politics 101, winning the argument. You people are so naive it'd be laughable except for the fact you're allowed to vote. The Conservatives, or to be fair, a faction of the Conservative party have decided that bashing benefit claimants is a vote winner, and it obviously is for certain members of this forum.

Just look at the "bedroom tax", a term that has never been used by the government and is inaccurate as a term. It's got nowt to do with how you present it, your opposition will alway misrepresent it.
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Yes, the opposition did well with that one.

A source for this? Please show where a politician has even come close to blaming lazy people for the deficit.

You can't because it's all in your head. You have presuppositions and simply fit what you hear to fit them, rather than listening to what's actually being said.
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Both those quotes are directly attributable to George Osborne and have been quite widely mentioned in the media.
 
scorza said:
So you spin it first and in a way that makes it difficult for the opposition to spin it their way - politics 101, winning the argument. You people are so naive it'd be laughable except for the fact you're allowed to vote. The Conservatives, or to be fair, a faction of the Conservative party have decided that bashing benefit claimants is a vote winner, and it obviously is for certain members of this forum.
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There's sections of society which you'll never win over on these issues. They're just anti cuts, and will scream blue murder (emotive slogans/story's etc) at the slightest whiff of change. The "argument" is won at the margins.

Neither side are naive, we just have conflicting interests and opinions.
 
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scorza said:
So you spin it first and in a way that makes it difficult for the opposition to spin it their way - politics 101, winning the argument. You people are so naive it'd be laughable except for the fact you're allowed to vote. The Conservatives, or to be fair, a faction of the Conservative party have decided that bashing benefit claimants is a vote winner, and it obviously is for certain members of this forum.



Yes, the opposition did well with that one.



Both those quotes are directly attributable to George Osborne and have been quite widely mentioned in the media.
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On bedroom tax, funny how the council call it this too.
 
Stretch said:
There's sections of society which you'll never win over on these issues. They're just anti cuts, and will scream blue murder (emotive slogans/story's etc) at the slightest whiff of change. The "argument" is won at the margins.

Neither side are naive, we just have conflicting interests and opinions.
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The argument is always won in the centre not the margins. I honestly don't know how you could argue otherwise, especially after correctly identifying that the margins aren't easily won over.

Sorry, but you are naive if you honestly think that the government aren't promoting a "strivers vs. skivers" agenda in the critical election battleground of middle England.
 
scorza said:
The argument is always won in the centre not the margins. I honestly don't know how you could argue otherwise, especially after correctly identifying that the margins aren't easily won over.

Sorry, but you are naive if you honestly think that the government aren't promoting a "strivers vs. skivers" agenda in the critical election battleground of middle England.
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Totally agree, you know, Things can be said in such a way, where the meaning is there but is easily denied. ;)
 
scorza said:
The argument is always won in the centre not the margins. I honestly don't know how you could argue otherwise, especially after correctly identifying that the margins aren't easily won over.

Sorry, but you are naive if you honestly think that the government aren't promoting a "strivers vs. skivers" agenda in the critical election battleground of middle England.
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I ment the margins of opinion, like a marginal seat, I.e. not polarised to the left or right (e.g. you)..

Yes, the government are trying to win support from those who work for a living.

Is that a bad thing?
 
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deanolfc said:
Suicide Grandmother, Bedroom Tax. Source DM

7000+ Murdered thanx to labor/Atos

Just makes you wonder what the **** is there agenda :) Good morning.
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Did you even read what you are linking to .... the article says that 7100 people died after being placed in the group for those entitled to unconditional support as they are too ill or disabled to work ... surely (a) that's the group you are saying that they should be in so they are not being forced into work and (b) as RDM says if they are unwell then is it surprising that a number of them (and there is no way of knowing from the article if this number is significant or not as no total is given) die.
 
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Its interesting you could do things like this. By direct implementations of policies you implement, that could result in a lot of deaths, and you could avoid responsibility for it. No guilt or feeling that you've done anything wrong, no evidence or culpability to be prosecutable.
 
Calabi said:
Yeah, theres probably no correlation, but it at least may not have been very nice to have put up with this so just before your death.
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Without any timescales we have no idea how long after being assessed they died and we have no idea what form the assessment took. This is sensationalist reporting at its worst and you seem to have fallen for it hook, link and sinker.
 
So what should the policy be with extreme threats such as suicide? Should we appease people who make such threats? Should we give in to their demands even if it can only be achived by obligating others? what happens if one of the newly obligated also threatens suicide?

Policy by emotion is generally a really bad idea...
 
I fear this could get much, much worse.

After the ATOS assessment at some point the DWP will make the decision. If it rules against somebody their money is stopped immediately, no warning given.

What they were advised to do was either swap to Job Seekers or write an appeal. This takes time so they told you to take out a crisis loan to cover your time without any money at all to live on.

All crisis loans and emergency welfare payments have been stopped from the 1st of April. On another forum there are people actually contemplating suicide. They have no money for food, bills and many are on key meters that are down to the last few pence.

The jobcentre directs them to the council which most have no funds or cash offices. They return them to the jobcentre who can issue a hard ship payment of just 30% of jobseekers allowance, £21.60 to last them till they get whatever they are doing sorted. If they are very lucky they may be nominated for charity food bank help.

Ok, I am sure many wont have much sympathy as they believe a majority are just work shy. But I think we should all remember we could ourselves end up in that situation through no fault of your own.

I am disgusted by it.
 
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